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Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*
Posted By: LionoftheMorning <HoundofthePlain@gmail.com>Date: 9/20/10 5:12 a.m.

In Response To: Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP* (Bry)


: If I may just venture... erm... aren't the novels themselves by definition a
: third party source then?
: I mean, the journal was written by Eric Nylund too and is included as part of
: the Limited and Legendary Editions, so what makes the novels any more
: important, other than availability?

: What's the scenario for most Halo players who've never read any of the
: novels, or even know they exist?
: They have to read these 'third party sources' to find out anything about what
: a Spartan II or III is, etc etc.

: Just saying.

See this is where I'm having some issues with following the logic of some of these posts. So I'm just going to vent some mental steam, I'll try not to be too apologetic, but that's sort of what any discussion about "canon" will always be.

There are two(2) root sources for the entire Halo canon (the fabled Halo Bible aside). Halo:CE and The Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund. If the structure is to be a stable and coherent one, then all else must in some way align with these cornerstones. The interesting part comes from how the geometries of these ideas interact.

I do not think that the story gurus at Bungie screwed the pooch nor do I think they decided to throw aside the canon that we love and understand. I also think that they are sneaky bastards, while also knowing that they're human and prone to fail.(People do that more often when they're trying to be clever btw.)

So we are going to have some glaring inconsistancies, and there are some I don't currently think can be reconciled, but as CINCLesotho has shown in his *SP SP* Halo: Reach Timeline *SP SP* post we can make many of these work if we're creative enough.

We need to be analytic while producing synthesis...and 343 need to do the same with where they go from here.

Also, to be clear, The Fall of Reach is not, and cannot be, considered a third party source. Nylund wrote it while development of Halo:CE was ongoing. He was given the most current source material to draw from, considering the amorphous nature of game design, and in doing so produced the foundation of the Haloverse in the world of the written word. They were developed in concert. They both have to be canon, especially within their respective mediums.

In the end, though, there are going to be left some angles in the composite that produce some disconnects with the whole. It may be considered a sin to be imperfect but, as Nucky Thompson claims, "“We all have to decide how much sin we can live with.”


Message Index




Replies:

I think we hold the books in too high a regard.Riceatron 9/19/10 2:28 a.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardHawaiian Pig 9/19/10 2:41 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardRiceatron 9/19/10 2:42 a.m.
                 Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 10:56 a.m.
                       *SP in my post*Avateur 9/19/10 11:06 a.m.
                             Re: *SP in my post*The BS Police 9/19/10 2:50 p.m.
                                   Re: *SP in my post*DHalo 9/19/10 2:54 p.m.
                                   Re: *SP in my post*scarab 9/19/10 2:56 p.m.
                                         That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/19/10 4:23 p.m.
                                               Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Louis Wu 9/19/10 5:31 p.m.
                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:53 p.m.
                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Bry 9/19/10 5:56 p.m.
                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*The BS Police 9/19/10 6:11 p.m.
                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:10 a.m.
                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/19/10 8:16 p.m.
                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:07 a.m.
                                                                 Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/20/10 11:03 a.m.
                                                                       Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 12:40 p.m.
                                                                             Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/20/10 12:58 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 1:08 p.m.
                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*kapowaz 9/20/10 5:53 a.m.
                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:14 a.m.
                                               Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Bry 9/19/10 5:42 p.m.
                                                     I agree *SPInjunfett 9/19/10 6:35 p.m.
                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*LionoftheMorning 9/20/10 5:12 a.m.
                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Bry 9/20/10 7:16 a.m.
                                                                 Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*LionoftheMorning 9/20/10 8:31 a.m.
                                                                       Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Bry 9/20/10 8:46 a.m.
                                                                             Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:19 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/20/10 1:08 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 5:51 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/20/10 6:14 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/21/10 9:12 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/21/10 3:15 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*thebruce0 9/21/10 4:47 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*Avateur 9/21/10 5:52 p.m.
                                               Re: That's stupid from a gaming standpoint *SP*kapowaz 9/20/10 5:43 a.m.
                             Re: *SP in my post*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 3:26 p.m.
                                   Re: *SP in my post*uberfoop 9/19/10 4:03 p.m.
                                         Re: *SP in my post*scarab 9/19/10 5:17 p.m.
                                   Re: *SP in my post*SonofMacPhisto 9/19/10 4:29 p.m.
                                         Re: *SP in my post*Bry 9/19/10 4:52 p.m.
                                               Re: *SP in my post*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:44 p.m.
                                   Re: *SP in my post*Avateur 9/19/10 4:33 p.m.
                                         Re: *SP in my post*LionoftheMorning 9/20/10 5:20 a.m.
                                         Re: *SP in my post*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:57 a.m.
                                               Re: *SP in my post*Avateur 9/20/10 11:05 a.m.
                                               Re: *SP in my post*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 5:56 p.m.
                                                     Re: *SP in my post*thebruce0 9/21/10 9:15 a.m.
     I agree wholeheartedly.NobleSixActual 9/19/10 4:07 a.m.
           Games > NovelsRiceatron 9/19/10 5:24 a.m.
                 Re: Games > NovelsYNation913 9/19/10 10:04 a.m.
                 Re: Games > NovelsCrab 9/19/10 4:13 p.m.
                 Re: Games > NovelsStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:39 p.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardmattroe 9/19/10 5:37 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardNobleSixActual 9/19/10 5:47 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardscarab 9/19/10 5:57 a.m.
                 Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardmattroe 9/19/10 6:03 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:00 a.m.
                 Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardBry 9/19/10 11:13 a.m.
                       Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:19 a.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regarddizzy 9/19/10 8:23 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardAzo 'Galvat 9/19/10 8:28 a.m.
                 It's not just The Fall of ReachThe BS Police 9/19/10 2:46 p.m.
                       Re: It's not just The Fall of ReachEddy 071 9/19/10 4:05 p.m.
                             Re: It's not just The Fall of ReachThe BS Police 9/19/10 5:58 p.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardBry 9/19/10 9:28 a.m.
                 Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:05 a.m.
                       Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardJinno 9/19/10 11:35 a.m.
                             Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardQuirel 9/19/10 11:37 a.m.
                                   Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 1:14 p.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardXmoosev3 9/19/10 8:27 a.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardGeneral Battuta 9/19/10 8:34 a.m.
     It's all about consistency. *SP*SPARTAN-034 9/19/10 8:37 a.m.
           Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Bry 9/19/10 9:35 a.m.
                 Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 10:53 a.m.
                       Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Bry 9/19/10 11:02 a.m.
                             Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:14 a.m.
                             Well, duh.Riceatron 9/19/10 12:51 p.m.
                                   Re: Well, duh.Bry 9/19/10 2:51 p.m.
                                         Re: Well, duh.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Well, duh.Bry 9/19/10 3:37 p.m.
                                                     Re: Well, duh.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:28 p.m.
                 Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/19/10 12:53 p.m.
                       Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 1:21 p.m.
                             Re: It's all about consistency. *SP*Bry 9/19/10 2:04 p.m.
     'We'? Didn't know we had a hive mind.Leviathan 9/19/10 10:21 a.m.
           Re: 'We'? Didn't know we had a hive mind.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:08 a.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardKermit 9/19/10 11:12 a.m.
           Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardBry 9/19/10 11:24 a.m.
                 Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 1:10 p.m.
                       Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardKermit 9/20/10 10:00 a.m.
                             Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 5:55 p.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardQuirel 9/19/10 11:56 a.m.
     Halo's just gotten too big for its britchesfree 9/19/10 2:12 p.m.
           It's outright carelessness.Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 3:46 p.m.
                 Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/19/10 4:22 p.m.
                       Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:34 p.m.
                             Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/19/10 6:44 p.m.
                 Re: It's outright carelessness.free 9/19/10 4:30 p.m.
                       Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:47 p.m.
                             Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/19/10 6:54 p.m.
                                   Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 6:59 p.m.
                             Re: It's outright carelessness.free 9/19/10 7:35 p.m.
                                   Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 9:52 p.m.
                             Re: It's outright carelessness.YNation913 9/19/10 8:34 p.m.
                                   Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 10:03 p.m.
                                         Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/19/10 10:20 p.m.
                                               Re: It's outright carelessness.uberfoop 9/19/10 10:39 p.m.
                                               Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 5:21 a.m.
                                                     Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/20/10 9:13 a.m.
                                                           Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 5:39 p.m.
                                                                 Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/20/10 7:06 p.m.
                                                                       Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 9:24 p.m.
                                                                             Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/20/10 11:33 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: It's outright carelessness.Quirel 9/20/10 11:50 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: It's outright carelessness.uberfoop 9/21/10 12:09 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: It's outright carelessness.Bry 9/21/10 12:15 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: It's outright carelessness.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/21/10 6:36 a.m.
                       This. *NM*thebruce0 9/20/10 10:24 a.m.
     Re: I think we hold the books in too high a regardBanditORR 9/19/10 3:03 p.m.
     A longer term fan's perspectivereprobate 9/19/10 8:54 p.m.
           Re: A longer term fan's perspectivedizzy 9/20/10 12:04 p.m.
                 Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveLouis Wu 9/20/10 12:40 p.m.
                       Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/20/10 1:20 p.m.
                             Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveLouis Wu 9/20/10 1:52 p.m.
                                   A fair point. *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/20/10 2:06 p.m.
                                         Re: A fair point.The Loot 9/20/10 3:05 p.m.
                                   Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveKermit 9/20/10 2:13 p.m.
                                         Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveuberfoop 9/20/10 3:28 p.m.
                                   Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveLionoftheMorning 9/20/10 2:33 p.m.
                       Re: A longer term fan's perspectivedizzy 9/20/10 2:48 p.m.
                             Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/20/10 2:58 p.m.
                             Wait... what?Louis Wu 9/20/10 3:53 p.m.
                                   Re: Wait... what?Leviathan 9/20/10 4:47 p.m.
                                   Re: Wait... what?dizzy 9/20/10 6:27 p.m.
                                         Re: Wait... what?Leviathan 9/20/10 6:44 p.m.
                                         Re: Wait... what?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 6:44 p.m.
                                         Re: Wait... what?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 6:50 p.m.
                                               Re: Wait... what?Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/20/10 6:57 p.m.
                             Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveKermit 9/20/10 5:21 p.m.
                                   Re: A longer term fan's perspectiveQuirel 9/20/10 6:20 p.m.
     I was talking to Stephen in-game.Riceatron 9/19/10 10:04 p.m.
     What I've learned from all this...Gravemind 9/20/10 7:21 a.m.
           I feel the same way. *NM* *NM*LionoftheMorning 9/20/10 8:33 a.m.
           Yep. This.Hawaiian Pig 9/20/10 3:07 p.m.
                 Re: Yep. This.LionoftheMorning 9/20/10 4:06 p.m.
           No, you didn't.Kermit 9/20/10 4:53 p.m.
                 Re: No, you didn't.Gravemind 9/20/10 5:51 p.m.
                       Re: No, you didn't.Quirel 9/20/10 6:00 p.m.



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