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External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation
Posted By: DecommissionerDate: 12/13/10 11:02 p.m.

In Response To: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time (Cody Miller)


I agree with you almost entirely (I don't care too much for arcade games).

To add to your argument:

For years, psychologist have studied the effects that external rewards have on intrinsic motivation. They have conclusively found, after introducing external rewards—the player investment system, in this case—to a task that was originally completed due to intrinsic motivations, that once the external rewards are removed, there is no longer any intrinsic motivation to complete the task. The classic example is introducing monetary rewards for good grades in school.

An extremely clear example of this with Reach is the daily cR limit. As soon as I hit the cR limit for the day (which has happened several times now), I immediately don't feel like playing any more. I feel like playing is now a waste of time. I have to force myself to remember that I play Halo for fun (intrinsic motivation), not credits (external reward). People on my friends list react the same way and more often than not, sign off after hitting the cap.

RC Master mentioned above that you're lucky that you can set goals for yourself to make the game fun. In other words, that you are lucky that you have intrinsic motivation to continue to play the game. However, I would say that you (and many of us) are 'unlucky' because the external rewards dilute the intrinsic motivation you have to play the game.

RC Master points out that the PIS helps to motivate players that feel that they are "done" with a game. These external rewards are a good things for these types of players, because gives them more reason to continue playing. And yes, this is the audience that game developers are targeting with these types of systems. From what I can tell, this is the largest group of people who play games (there are so many people on my friends list that played for the first week or two when Reach was out, but haven't touched it since).

But I agree with you, Cody, that these systems are down-right mean to the people who want to play the game for intrinsically attained fun. A developer should never ruin the experience for 'true' fans of their game just to keep passers-by around for profit reasons.

Even though I find that the actual gameplay of Halo Reach far better than that of Halo 3, I enjoyed Halo 3 more, and I know it's due to the PIS. This really, really irritates me and I'm glad to know that other people are annoyed with the system, too.

As a side note: Before Halo Reach came out, I was looking forward to Bungie's next IP. Now that I've experienced Reach (more specifically, Reach's PIS), I am completely uninterested in the next IP. They will have to make one mother f'in good game for me to even remotely consider buying it.


Message Index




Replies:

On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeCody Miller 12/13/10 2:12 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeZackDark 12/13/10 2:28 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Timeelessar787 12/13/10 2:36 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeWayward Spleen™ 12/13/10 2:38 p.m.
           Exactly what you saidGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 2:47 p.m.
                 Re: Exactly what you saidCody Miller 12/13/10 2:53 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly what you saidbluerunner 12/13/10 3:04 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly what you saidGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:05 p.m.
                             Re: Exactly what you saidCody Miller 12/13/10 3:27 p.m.
                                   Re: Exactly what you saidGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:31 p.m.
                                   Here I still disagree. But not as much as before.munky-058 12/13/10 5:24 p.m.
                                         Re: Here I still disagree. But not as much as befoCody Miller 12/13/10 5:32 p.m.
                 Re: Exactly what you saidSonofMacPhisto 12/13/10 3:00 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly what you saidGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:02 p.m.
                             The worst part of the system?Wayward Spleen™ 12/13/10 3:14 p.m.
                             Re: Exactly what you saidRC Master 12/13/10 3:56 p.m.
                 Re: Exactly what you saidWayward Spleen™ 12/13/10 3:09 p.m.
           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeCody Miller 12/13/10 2:50 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 2:48 p.m.
           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 2:49 p.m.
                 Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 2:57 p.m.
                       Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:00 p.m.
                             Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 3:07 p.m.
                                   Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:09 p.m.
                                         Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 3:13 p.m.
                                               Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeZackDark 12/13/10 3:17 p.m.
                                                     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 3:24 p.m.
                                                           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeZackDark 12/13/10 3:30 p.m.
                                               Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeCody Miller 12/13/10 3:21 p.m.
                                                     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 3:27 p.m.
                                                           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimecheapLEY 12/13/10 5:00 p.m.
                                                                 Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeLouis Wu 12/13/10 5:02 p.m.
                                                                       Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeCody Miller 12/13/10 5:10 p.m.
                                                                             Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeThorsHammer 12/13/10 7:01 p.m.
                                                                 Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/14/10 3:28 p.m.
                                                                       Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeCody Miller 12/14/10 3:40 p.m.
                                   Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeZackDark 12/13/10 3:14 p.m.
                                   I've got something the covenant can smoke...bluerunner 12/13/10 3:20 p.m.
                                   Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeSonofMacPhisto 12/13/10 3:28 p.m.
                                         Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 4:00 p.m.
                                               Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeSonofMacPhisto 12/13/10 4:38 p.m.
                                   Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeKermit 12/13/10 8:03 p.m.
                                         Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeRC Master 12/13/10 8:36 p.m.
                                               Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeKermit 12/13/10 8:45 p.m.
                             Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeWayward Spleen™ 12/13/10 3:18 p.m.
                                   Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeBeckx 12/13/10 3:26 p.m.
     Here's an odd notionGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 3:20 p.m.
           Re: Here's an odd notionZackDark 12/13/10 3:25 p.m.
           Re: Here's an odd notionManKitten 12/13/10 4:37 p.m.
           Re: Here's an odd notionRC Master 12/13/10 4:43 p.m.
           Here's an odder notionThorsHammer 12/13/10 7:20 p.m.
                 Re: Here's an odder notionGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 7:21 p.m.
                 Re: Here's an odder notionRC Master 12/13/10 8:17 p.m.
                 Re: Here's an odder notionCody Miller 12/14/10 2:01 p.m.
     Your opinion.munky-058 12/13/10 3:47 p.m.
           Re: Your opinion.Kermit 12/13/10 3:58 p.m.
           I agree with you and CodyManKitten 12/13/10 4:08 p.m.
                 Re: I agree with you and CodyBeckx 12/13/10 4:33 p.m.
                       Re: I agree with you and CodyManKitten 12/13/10 4:45 p.m.
                 I've always been supportive of honorable gameplay.munky-058 12/13/10 5:09 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeChrisTheeCrappy 12/13/10 4:27 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeKalamariKidd 12/13/10 5:19 p.m.
           Excuse me!?RC Master 12/13/10 7:58 p.m.
                 Re: Excuse me!?Beckx 12/13/10 8:33 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeWurny 12/13/10 5:43 p.m.
     You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...RC Master 12/13/10 7:52 p.m.
           oh yeah... ^ *long* *NM*RC Master 12/13/10 8:18 p.m.
           Love this post!Kermit 12/13/10 8:21 p.m.
                 Re: Love this post!General Battuta 12/13/10 8:55 p.m.
                       Re: Love this post!Kermit 12/13/10 9:29 p.m.
                 Re: Love this post!Bernard Strauss 12/14/10 10:50 a.m.
                       Re: Love this post!Kermit 12/14/10 1:02 p.m.
           Re: You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...Cody Miller 12/13/10 8:47 p.m.
                 Re: You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...RC Master 12/13/10 10:31 p.m.
     Fantastic..c0ld vengeance 12/13/10 9:19 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeRagashingo 12/13/10 9:19 p.m.
           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 9:22 p.m.
                 Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeRagashingo 12/13/10 9:34 p.m.
                       Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeGeneral Battuta 12/13/10 10:00 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeAzo 'Galvat 12/13/10 9:44 p.m.
           Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Timekidtsunami 12/13/10 11:06 p.m.
     External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationDecommissioner 12/13/10 11:02 p.m.
           I pretty much agree.uberfoop 12/13/10 11:18 p.m.
           Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationRC Master 12/14/10 7:21 a.m.
                 Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationDecommissioner 12/14/10 10:58 a.m.
                       Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationRC Master 12/14/10 12:49 p.m.
                             Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationDecommissioner 12/14/10 3:47 p.m.
                                   Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationRC Master 12/17/10 4:49 a.m.
                                         Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic MotivationDecommissioner 12/17/10 2:36 p.m.
     Two Words: Skinner Box *NM*The Loot 12/14/10 12:10 a.m.
     Campaigns are the classic reward systemRC Master 12/14/10 7:08 a.m.
     Very nicely written, Cody.yakaman 12/14/10 1:16 p.m.
     How Oddly Relevant...Bones153 12/14/10 3:13 p.m.
           Re: How Oddly Relevant...SonofMacPhisto 12/14/10 3:44 p.m.
     Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's TimeNotTheVacuum 12/15/10 10:41 a.m.



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