Re: Here I still disagree. But not as much as befo





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Re: Here I still disagree. But not as much as befo

Posted By: Cody Miller Date: 12/13/10 5:32 p.m.
In Response To: Here I still disagree. But not as much as before. (munky-058)

: I used to think you were dead wrong, remember?
: People with your mentality are the reason we have so many invisible walls and
: soft-kill zones.
: But because of them, and the way they limit us, I see your point a little
: better. Arbitrarily telling us how to play the game is wrong. It makes it
: less fun. Even when it shouldn't matter, like the invisiwall behind Blue
: Base on Tempest. They shouldn't do that. If they don't want us going
: somewhere, make it difficult to get there, don't cop-out with an invisible
: wall. Reach is a lot less fun because of this. I have the skill to jetpack
: across the very thin girders on Exodus. But I can't get far because of the
: soft-kill zone. It took the fun out of exploration. It didn't bother me so
: much in Halo 3. It does in Reach. Because of this, we'll never have
: awesome jump videos like we had in Halo 1, and The Banshee trick on The
: Package is the only thing we can truly enjoy liberties with. But even that
: is limited, because we have banshees.
: That takes longevity out of the game, and all the grinding challenges in the
: world aren't going to keep me hooked.
: Bungie should have had an "Unlock all invisible walls" bonus for
: Solo Legendary Completion + scoring off. The fact that they can disable
: the walls in New Alexandria and The Package is a sign that they easily
: could have, but chose not to.
: I agree that it gives the game some depth when you can bend the rules as far
: as possible (things like the forklift glitch still exist, and can be fun)
: without breaking them, but that should be done for fun, not for personally
: beneficial reasons like scoring credits. But as I said, since the
: Challenges are a broken system, and because of all of the invisible walls,
: I don't even care anymore how much people bend the rules.
This is of course a side effect of player reward systems, since any system that is in place can be gamed. Sometimes not even gamed, just optimized by clever players. The fact that having such reward systems forces developers to shrink the game's possibility space by limiting player choice, is I think on its own enough to illustrate that they are harmful and not worthwhile.

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On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Cody Miller	12/13/10 2:12 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ZackDark	12/13/10 2:28 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	elessar787	12/13/10 2:36 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Wayward Spleen™	12/13/10 2:38 p.m.
Exactly what you said	General Battuta	12/13/10 2:47 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	Cody Miller	12/13/10 2:53 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	bluerunner	12/13/10 3:04 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:05 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	Cody Miller	12/13/10 3:27 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:31 p.m.
Here I still disagree. But not as much as before.	munky-058	12/13/10 5:24 p.m.
Re: Here I still disagree. But not as much as befo	Cody Miller	12/13/10 5:32 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	SonofMacPhisto	12/13/10 3:00 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:02 p.m.
The worst part of the system?	Wayward Spleen™	12/13/10 3:14 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	RC Master	12/13/10 3:56 p.m.
Re: Exactly what you said	Wayward Spleen™	12/13/10 3:09 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Cody Miller	12/13/10 2:50 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 2:48 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	General Battuta	12/13/10 2:49 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 2:57 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:00 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 3:07 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:09 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 3:13 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ZackDark	12/13/10 3:17 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 3:24 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ZackDark	12/13/10 3:30 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Cody Miller	12/13/10 3:21 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 3:27 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	cheapLEY	12/13/10 5:00 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Louis Wu	12/13/10 5:02 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Cody Miller	12/13/10 5:10 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ThorsHammer	12/13/10 7:01 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/14/10 3:28 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Cody Miller	12/14/10 3:40 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ZackDark	12/13/10 3:14 p.m.
I've got something the covenant can smoke...	bluerunner	12/13/10 3:20 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	SonofMacPhisto	12/13/10 3:28 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 4:00 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	SonofMacPhisto	12/13/10 4:38 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Kermit	12/13/10 8:03 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	RC Master	12/13/10 8:36 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Kermit	12/13/10 8:45 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Wayward Spleen™	12/13/10 3:18 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Beckx	12/13/10 3:26 p.m.
Here's an odd notion	General Battuta	12/13/10 3:20 p.m.
Re: Here's an odd notion	ZackDark	12/13/10 3:25 p.m.
Re: Here's an odd notion	ManKitten	12/13/10 4:37 p.m.
Re: Here's an odd notion	RC Master	12/13/10 4:43 p.m.
Here's an odder notion	ThorsHammer	12/13/10 7:20 p.m.
Re: Here's an odder notion	General Battuta	12/13/10 7:21 p.m.
Re: Here's an odder notion	RC Master	12/13/10 8:17 p.m.
Re: Here's an odder notion	Cody Miller	12/14/10 2:01 p.m.
Your opinion.	munky-058	12/13/10 3:47 p.m.
Re: Your opinion.	Kermit	12/13/10 3:58 p.m.
I agree with you and Cody	ManKitten	12/13/10 4:08 p.m.
Re: I agree with you and Cody	Beckx	12/13/10 4:33 p.m.
Re: I agree with you and Cody	ManKitten	12/13/10 4:45 p.m.
I've always been supportive of honorable gameplay.	munky-058	12/13/10 5:09 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	ChrisTheeCrappy	12/13/10 4:27 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	KalamariKidd	12/13/10 5:19 p.m.
Excuse me!?	RC Master	12/13/10 7:58 p.m.
Re: Excuse me!?	Beckx	12/13/10 8:33 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Wurny	12/13/10 5:43 p.m.
You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...	RC Master	12/13/10 7:52 p.m.
oh yeah... ^ long NM	RC Master	12/13/10 8:18 p.m.
Love this post!	Kermit	12/13/10 8:21 p.m.
Re: Love this post!	General Battuta	12/13/10 8:55 p.m.
Re: Love this post!	Kermit	12/13/10 9:29 p.m.
Re: Love this post!	Bernard Strauss	12/14/10 10:50 a.m.
Re: Love this post!	Kermit	12/14/10 1:02 p.m.
Re: You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...	Cody Miller	12/13/10 8:47 p.m.
Re: You know, you're kinda lucky Cody...	RC Master	12/13/10 10:31 p.m.
Fantastic..	c0ld vengeance	12/13/10 9:19 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Ragashingo	12/13/10 9:19 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	General Battuta	12/13/10 9:22 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Ragashingo	12/13/10 9:34 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	General Battuta	12/13/10 10:00 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	Azo 'Galvat	12/13/10 9:44 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	kidtsunami	12/13/10 11:06 p.m.
External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	Decommissioner	12/13/10 11:02 p.m.
I pretty much agree.	uberfoop	12/13/10 11:18 p.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	RC Master	12/14/10 7:21 a.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	Decommissioner	12/14/10 10:58 a.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	RC Master	12/14/10 12:49 p.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	Decommissioner	12/14/10 3:47 p.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	RC Master	12/17/10 4:49 a.m.
Re: External Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation	Decommissioner	12/17/10 2:36 p.m.
Two Words: Skinner Box NM	The Loot	12/14/10 12:10 a.m.
Campaigns are the classic reward system	RC Master	12/14/10 7:08 a.m.
Very nicely written, Cody.	yakaman	12/14/10 1:16 p.m.
How Oddly Relevant...	Bones153	12/14/10 3:13 p.m.
Re: How Oddly Relevant...	SonofMacPhisto	12/14/10 3:44 p.m.
Re: On Bungie and the Value of the Player's Time	NotTheVacuum	12/15/10 10:41 a.m.