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Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"
Posted By: Anton1792 <anton_morgy@msn.com>Date: 1/11/13 2:17 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0" (SonGoharotto)


: Halo 3 actually set us up for this. We already have the major players in the
: Sangeheili political arena.

: Rtas "Half-Jaw" 'Vadum got a Johnson-style upgrade, becoming a
: strong supporting character. (He has some of the best lines.) Whereas
: Arbiter/Thel was once publicly disgraced, even if that was under the
: auspices of the now-broken Covenant, Rtas is still a decorated and
: respected active military commander with unimpeachable ethics, from the
: Sangheili perspective.

I would have thought that many of them would have been a bit more forgiving and supportive of Thel given that he helped to end Truth and stop the Array's activation. After Halo 3, knowledge of just how powerful and dangerous the Flood is should not be something that isn't known and isn't being well-circulated, which would likely give Thel fuel to rebut his shaming in the first place. I think his decision to withdraw from the Ring would seem a lot more defensible after Halo 3, but none of this is covered. He's just completely irrelevant. Hell, even the Ship Master in the animated version of The Return calls Thel the champion of his people, and this guy doesn't even share the same religious beliefs as him. I dunno, I just expected him to have more support than the grand total of 0 that he had in TTW rebellion.

Rtas might be a powerful ally but in the end they are still a grim minority in what I perceived to be an ocean of unmovable hatred and bitterness, and it seems very unlikely that they or their ideals are going to survive. When Infinity bombed Sanghelios and intervened on Thel's behalf, that was it. Thel's public status would have instantly evaporated and any chance of him winning the hearts of his people would have died on that instant if anything about Sangheili culture is still canon. Though that's me betting on Rtas not turning on Thel for some reason. I never would have thought that Mendez would turn on Halsey in the way he did (Not saying anything about the quality of the twist though), so I'm not quite ready to be certain about Rtas' allegiance here. Thel and Rtas alone won't be enough I don't think. They needed to have some form of backing. I mean Thel does, but I don't think that it is for peace. It seems to be the opposite in some sense, in that his supporters believe that focusing on rebuilding Sanghelios is the best way back to dominance. Peace with Humans isn't one of his selling points; it's arguable whether it is even viewed as a positive aspect at all.

: We've also got N'tho 'Sraom and Usze 'Taham, whose (presumed) youth and
: resolve represent a grassroots movement that can drive real change in
: Sangheili society.

I'm not really certain that this concept made the cut. Then again that's going back to how much reading in-between the lines I do with Kilo-5 and if I'm right in interpreting it that way. I wonder if N'tho 'Sraom and the growing movement of Human sympathizers that he was emblematic of still exist in the canon. He wasn't in the Encyclopaedia, however Uzse 'Taham was, which is kind of odd given that they originated in the same source.

I do think the Sangheilli's general character has been altered in these novels though. I'm almost sure of it. What I was saying earlier about a Sangheili "renaissance" came from reading this; about how Truth cast them out in response to growing dissent and lack of faith. The rather extreme response that he used towards the Halo 2 Heretics can indicate this. Sending an Arbiter (Usually something created and justified during times of great need) to deal with a small band of dissenters holed up somewhere isolated seems odd. They had only been broadcasting for under a month and even if they were terrorists, they could hardly threaten the very existence of the Covenant. Or did they? After reading that it seemed likely to me that they were accelerating the degradation of the Sangheili's faith before Truth was ready by spreading information that the Heirarchs couldn't control. Though much of this seems to have changed. The assumption that 343i seem to be operating under is that nothing peculiar was going on at all and that they were all happy with the status quo, and are content to return to it. In that sense I'm not sure how much, if any, of these references to Sangheili being ... how to say... in general, anything other than zealots, imperialistic and genocidal (And misanthropic, of course) are still relevant.


Message Index




Replies:

Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 1:27 a.m.
     Didn't care for it in the books, nor in the game *NM*kornman00 1/8/13 7:05 a.m.
     I see it as...thebruce0 1/8/13 8:47 a.m.
           Re: I see it as...scarab 1/8/13 1:00 p.m.
                 Re: I see it as...thebruce0 1/9/13 9:11 a.m.
                       Re: I see it as...scarab 1/9/13 12:02 p.m.
     Instead of the Mantle...Mid7night 1/8/13 9:29 a.m.
           Re: Instead of the Mantle...scarab 1/8/13 10:14 a.m.
                 Re: Instead of the Mantle...Mid7night 1/8/13 12:07 p.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Jaydee 1/8/13 10:36 a.m.
           Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 11:36 a.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Bry 1/8/13 11:43 a.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?Quirel 1/8/13 12:05 p.m.
                             oh you cynics! *NM*scarab 1/8/13 12:08 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?Anton1792 1/8/13 2:19 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 10:15 p.m.
                                   Re: Mantle: do want?Anton1792 1/8/13 11:10 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?NikGntre 1/8/13 10:32 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 10:43 p.m.
                                   Re: Mantle: do want?NikGntre 1/8/13 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Metalingus627 1/8/13 6:05 p.m.
                       The first SpOps cutscene vid *NM*scarab 1/8/13 6:09 p.m.
                             The Sangheli with the nuke was a refugee *NM*scarab 1/8/13 10:47 p.m.
                                   Guess I need to re-watch those.Metalingus627 1/9/13 4:44 p.m.
     Mantle = Fascism?SonGoharotto 1/8/13 10:50 a.m.
           Re: Mantle = Fascism?Bry 1/8/13 11:29 a.m.
                 Re: Mantle = Fascism?scarab 1/8/13 11:40 a.m.
                       Re: Mantle = Fascism?Bry 1/8/13 11:46 a.m.
                             DOH! *NM*scarab 1/8/13 12:07 p.m.
                 Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 1:01 p.m.
                       Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ragashingo 1/8/13 1:09 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 2:34 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ragashingo 1/8/13 11:47 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 12:15 a.m.
                                               Agreed. *NM*Ragashingo 1/9/13 12:27 a.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/9/13 4:48 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 9:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Metalingus627 1/9/13 4:48 p.m.
                       Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/8/13 1:45 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 2:49 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/8/13 3:17 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:11 p.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Anton1792 1/8/13 8:42 p.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 12:25 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ragashingo 1/9/13 12:30 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/9/13 12:51 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Leisandir 1/9/13 9:40 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/9/13 10:12 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Leisandir 1/9/13 12:37 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 9:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Anton1792 1/9/13 1:46 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 10:06 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Anton1792 1/11/13 11:30 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/11/13 12:23 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Anton1792 1/11/13 2:17 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/15/13 4:41 p.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/9/13 12:41 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/9/13 10:11 a.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ragashingo 1/8/13 3:34 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:16 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Quirel 1/8/13 7:34 p.m.
                                   ^ This *NM*SonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:17 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ibeechu 1/8/13 8:02 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"thebruce0 1/9/13 9:33 a.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"thebruce0 1/9/13 9:35 a.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/9/13 9:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"thebruce0 1/9/13 9:51 a.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"NikGntre 1/8/13 10:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/8/13 10:59 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"NikGntre 1/8/13 11:16 p.m.
                       Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/8/13 1:59 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 3:09 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Postmortem 1/8/13 3:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Metalingus627 1/10/13 10:57 p.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/11/13 12:48 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Metalingus627 1/11/13 1:49 a.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/8/13 4:43 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:19 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Quirel 1/8/13 7:58 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"SonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:26 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Bry 1/8/13 9:59 p.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Ragashingo 1/8/13 11:56 p.m.
                                                     Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Metalingus627 1/10/13 10:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/8/13 11:13 p.m.
                                               Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"uberfoop 1/8/13 11:20 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"Gravemind 1/8/13 8:23 p.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"RC Master 1/8/13 6:48 p.m.
                                   Hear hearSonGoharotto 1/8/13 8:31 p.m.
                                         Re: Hear hearscarab 1/8/13 11:35 p.m.
                                               That would explain the mess that is Prometheus *NM*SonGoharotto 1/9/13 12:29 a.m.
                                         Re: Hear hearthebruce0 1/9/13 9:46 a.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/8/13 11:23 p.m.
                                         Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"RC Master 1/9/13 10:24 a.m.
                             Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"uberfoop 1/8/13 9:46 p.m.
                                   Re: Something else I don't like about "Halo 2.0"scarab 1/8/13 11:25 p.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Postmortem 1/8/13 11:23 a.m.
           Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 11:59 a.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?thebruce0 1/8/13 12:26 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/8/13 12:44 p.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Postmortem 1/8/13 12:33 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 1/8/13 1:10 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?RC Master 1/8/13 7:17 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 10:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/9/13 12:00 a.m.
                                         Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/9/13 12:08 a.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/8/13 12:07 p.m.
           Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 12:19 p.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?thebruce0 1/8/13 12:46 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/8/13 1:07 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?thebruce0 1/9/13 9:55 a.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 1:10 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?thebruce0 1/9/13 10:00 a.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/8/13 1:02 p.m.
                       Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 1:32 p.m.
                             Re: Mantle: do want?Hoovaloov 1/8/13 4:40 p.m.
                                   Good answer. *NM*Ragashingo 1/8/13 4:59 p.m.
                                         Ditto :) *NM*thebruce0 1/9/13 10:04 a.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Didact&Librarian 1/8/13 2:46 p.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Anton1792 1/8/13 3:34 p.m.
     Re: Mantle: do want?Quirel 1/8/13 8:07 p.m.
           Re: Mantle: do want?scarab 1/8/13 10:37 p.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Ragashingo 1/9/13 12:03 a.m.
                 Re: Mantle: do want?Quirel 1/9/13 11:55 a.m.



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