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Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2
Posted By: FauxHammer <colin@macteens.com>Date: 12/2/04 12:36 p.m.

In Response To: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2 (mothergoat)

i Agree that halo 2 is in many ways subtly different from halo 1. Personally, I like it BETTER, but i am not "hardcore" and the first time i played through halo 1 was when it came out for Mac OS. Playing it on mac convinced me to buy an xbox for halo 2.

Anyway, I can see why bungie would change things. From an artistic standpoint, I would much rather tinker with a sucessful formula and try to improve it, rather than simply treading water. It seems like a lot of you would have preffered for halo 2 to simply be a new campaign and new MP levels thrown into the same old game engine. Sorta like an expansion pack for Halo 1. I can see how you might prefer the feel of halo 1 and thus you would want that feel to carry over to halo 2, and i admit that in some ways it does NOT. However, i am still glad that this is not halo 1.5. I'm glad that bungie decided to push ahead, and take risks. Some of their risks paid of great. Some did not. For example, it is nearly impossible to maintain interest in a narrative when you are switching back and forth between two protagonists. On the other hand, i really liked the covenant side of the story. Almost all change in halo 2 is a mixed blessing, like that.

I also think that there are a ton of things that are really just changes, neither positive nor particularly negative, that people make a big fuss over. Things like the weapon balance now being very different, and the floatier jump, and the lack of fall damage. I don't really think these things make either game better or worse, it is just a change. A change that some people didn't like, or haven't gotten used to.

Basically, my standpoint is that halo 2 is a different game from halo 1. It feels different. The "30 seconds of fun" from halo 1 is still there, and in fact I think it has been improved. However, the context of that 30 seconds is now very different. I don't think it is any "worse" than Halo 1. It's just different. Some people like it, some people dont. But honestly, if it WASNT different, it would kinda suck. You might not like the differences, but imagine if it was the SAME.

Yes, halo 1 is a longer game, but that is only because they stretched it out. You play through the same levels twice, you spend a lot of time taking indirect routes. Halo 1's levels aren't BIGGER, they are just longer. For example, in halo 1 you see the control room pyramid, and then you go through a corridor, down an elevator, into another corridor, across a field, and then another 10 minutes zig zagging your way up the pyramid. Here you have a good 20-30 minutes of gameplay that all takes place in a relatively small part of the map. This hardly EVER happens in halo 2. You have shorter, more varied levels with less repetition. I mean, in AotCR, you have the same corridor, over and over and over, like 10 times, and the same hallways 20 times, and the same bridge 2 or 3 times. The halo 1 levels are waaay dragged out. In any other game, this would be a bad thing, but in halo 1 it was good because it gave you more time to do what halo did best, which is fight covenant AIs. Ironically, that "flaw" in halo 1 was what made it so great, because it took the focus off the environments and put it on close quarters combat. Then, when you finally run into a huge open field, it feels awesome and it is a huge change of pace, and it feels like having 2 games in one. Halo 2 doesnt have that. In halo 2, the pace never slows down. There is hardly any repetition at all. You either have consistently varied interiors (ie the gas giant level) or you have consistently varied exteriors (delta halo, quarentine zone). One of the only levels in halo 2 that has the same repetition type level design as halo 1 is the level Gravemind. That level really captures the feel of Halo 1 favorites like Attack on the Control Room and Two Betrayals.

I guess i feel the difference between the two is Halo 1 is a mixture of fast paced action, and slow paced corridor crawling. Halo 2 is all fast paced, and it feels less varied because of it. Halo 1's flaws are what made it great, and now that the flaws have been mostly eliminated, it feels... different. Not worse by any means, but different.

Different can be bad, but it is also good. Because if halo 2 was BETTER than halo 1, you would never play halo 1 anymore. But since it is different, it is not a replacement, but a suppliment. You play halo 2 for a faster paced story and more close quarters action, you play halo 1 for a more mysterious and intriguing story and more varied action. You also play halo 2 for all but flawless multiplayer. Yeah, i do sorta wish you spawned with the battle rifle instead of the SMG. I think your complaints about single wielding dual wieldable weapons is valid, but really only because you spawn with one. In halo 1 you had weapons like the needler or the plasma pistol which are all but useless. In halo 2 they are still usless alone, but they are powerful when dual wielded. I think that is a great way to "make the weak weapons better" as you suggested, because now you can take your half weapons and dual wield them, which adds a great element of strategy and depth. However, i do agree that you should not spawn with half a weapon. Especially the SMG. Especially in big team games where there are only enough dual wieldable weapons around the base for about half of the team to get one.

Anyways, most of the disappointment stems from people who thought that after getting halo 2, they would never need or want to play halo 1 again, because it would be the same thing, only better in some way.

Thats not what we got. We got something better, only different in many ways. I know "change is bad", but this is a sequel, not an expansion pack. You don't expect a book or movie sequel to be an improved version of the original... you expect it to be a sequel. This is Halo 2. Not Halo 2.0. Combat Evolved again. Not Combat Revisited.


Message Index




Replies:

Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2mothergoat 12/1/04 8:15 p.m.
     Noice (Aussie Accent)Ghost Darkfire 12/1/04 8:29 p.m.
           Re: Noice (Aussie Accent)TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:39 a.m.
           Re: Noice (Aussie Accent)Mothergoat 12/2/04 8:40 a.m.
     ^^ Well said *nm* *NM*saint.duo 12/1/04 8:39 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Peptuck 12/1/04 8:45 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ragn4rokk 12/1/04 8:47 p.m.
     BravoSomeone 12/1/04 8:57 p.m.
           Re: BravoGre'Thor 12/1/04 9:04 p.m.
                 Re: BravoMikeMan445 12/1/04 10:28 p.m.
                       Re: BravoGre'Thor 12/2/04 8:55 a.m.
                             Re: BravoMasterGrunt_Yayap-117 12/2/04 5:53 p.m.
     Bravo *NM*Jamirus99 12/1/04 9:01 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Keith 12/1/04 9:09 p.m.
           I agree with him. ^^^Saint [lpn] 12/1/04 9:12 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 9:14 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ringthree 12/2/04 3:58 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2JakeDaGreat 12/2/04 4:37 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 4:52 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 4:54 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:37 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2box 12/3/04 12:02 p.m.
                 BTW ^^^ that was directed toward Keith's reply *NM*box 12/3/04 12:06 p.m.
     Well saidGrady 12/1/04 9:11 p.m.
           Re: Well saidHybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:26 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:11 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 9:17 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Ducain 12/1/04 9:35 p.m.
     Nice write up. :)Zero Flaw (E Nomini Patri) 12/1/04 9:40 p.m.
     Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*gspawn 12/1/04 9:56 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Jamirus99 12/1/04 10:13 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:15 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Mothergoat 12/2/04 12:57 a.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Woogy 12/2/04 2:19 p.m.
           Another difference possibility...Blitzwolf 12/2/04 5:26 p.m.
           Couple things...ViolentlyHappy 12/2/04 7:36 p.m.
           This guy rules! *NM* *NM*7h3_h0ck3y_w1z 12/3/04 2:37 a.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*[§]Zéù$ 12/6/04 8:14 p.m.
                 Halo CENarcogen 12/6/04 11:49 p.m.
     I guess I agree with a lot of that but...stan 12/1/04 10:04 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/1/04 10:04 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:20 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/1/04 10:36 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:51 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MikeMan445 12/2/04 12:03 a.m.
                                   Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/2/04 5:43 a.m.
                                         Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2GaMMa 12/2/04 11:36 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:15 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/2/04 5:22 p.m.
     I completely disagree in every way.MikeMan445 12/1/04 10:10 p.m.
           Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:26 p.m.
                 Until the bell cracks that is. *NM*stan 12/1/04 10:27 p.m.
                       Re: Until the bell cracks that is.MSN 12/2/04 1:40 p.m.
                             Re: Until the bell cracks that is.mnemesis 12/2/04 2:21 p.m.
                 Re: I completely disagree in every way.MikeMan445 12/1/04 10:31 p.m.
                       Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:54 p.m.
                             Re: I completely disagree in every way.AeroJonesy 12/1/04 11:39 p.m.
                                   Re: I completely disagree in every way.Saint [lpn] 12/1/04 11:45 p.m.
                                         Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/2/04 12:47 a.m.
                                         Re: I completely disagree in every way.madcowjim 12/2/04 12:14 p.m.
                                               Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/2/04 1:43 p.m.
                 Re: I completely disagree in every way.Infininja 12/5/04 1:20 a.m.
           change for change's sakeTalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:05 a.m.
                 Re: change for change's sakeMikeMan445 12/2/04 1:38 p.m.
           Re: I completely disagree in every way.MacDjinn 12/4/04 2:42 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ctishman 12/2/04 1:17 a.m.
     What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 2:50 a.m.
           Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 4:50 a.m.
                 Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 5:39 a.m.
                       Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:50 a.m.
                             Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 6:32 a.m.
                                   Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 11:14 a.m.
                                         Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 5:05 p.m.
     Thank You MothergoatStanton 12/2/04 3:38 a.m.
           Re: Thank You MothergoatTalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:56 a.m.
     THIS IS NOT A REVIEWMothergoat 12/2/04 8:32 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mathijs Buster 12/2/04 11:04 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2AZC 12/2/04 11:40 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2True Monkey King 12/2/04 11:44 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2madcowjim 12/2/04 12:06 p.m.
     pistol and the bansheespaceghost 12/2/04 11:48 a.m.
           Re: pistol and the bansheeMothergoat 12/2/04 1:45 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:57 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:58 a.m.
                 He Writes for www.Lawrence.com *NM*Mintz08 12/2/04 12:30 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 1:48 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MegaManfre 12/2/04 12:23 p.m.
     A Few CommentsSyracuse022 12/2/04 12:29 p.m.
           Re: A Few CommentsStrangepurple 12/2/04 12:38 p.m.
           EXACTLYMikeMan445 12/2/04 1:49 p.m.
                 Re: EXACTLYMothergoat 12/2/04 1:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2FauxHammer 12/2/04 12:36 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 2:00 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2FauxHammer 12/2/04 3:00 p.m.
     Thank YouBeoren 12/2/04 1:04 p.m.
     Of Physics - Clarificationmothergoat 12/2/04 1:08 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Fathersheep 12/2/04 1:13 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2HALOHUMAN 12/2/04 1:21 p.m.
     Well written... *NM*CYBRFRK 12/2/04 1:32 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MthdDirector 12/2/04 1:40 p.m.
     My say on the matterscottisonfire 12/2/04 1:58 p.m.
           Maybe i'm crazy but here's what i thinkGhentec 12/2/04 6:22 p.m.
                 Re: Maybe i'm crazy but here's what i thinkscottisonfire 12/2/04 8:36 p.m.
     Re: lol "when keepin' it real goes wrong" *NM*Mantis819 12/2/04 2:01 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Gotenks1215 12/2/04 2:15 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Blue Dragon 12/2/04 2:48 p.m.
     Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMa1agate 12/2/04 3:08 p.m.
           Re: Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMothergoat 12/2/04 3:26 p.m.
                 Re: Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMadMan42 12/2/04 4:51 p.m.
     I loved halo 2 (*ending was great*)MacDjinn 12/2/04 4:25 p.m.
           Halo 2 is better (rant)Trainee 12/2/04 5:34 p.m.
                 Realistic vs feeling RealBey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:40 a.m.
     Right there with yaRockhard 12/2/04 4:32 p.m.
     halo 1 on liveLatekid 12/2/04 4:45 p.m.
           Halo 1.5smitty15 12/2/04 6:47 p.m.
     Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/2/04 5:07 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Trainee 12/2/04 5:40 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!madcowjim 12/2/04 5:55 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:25 a.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!jfitzell 12/2/04 6:59 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:08 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hallway Giant 12/2/04 5:11 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Let_Me_Live 12/2/04 5:37 p.m.
     YAH2OOmniscient 12/2/04 6:34 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2eiii 12/2/04 6:50 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MthdDirector 12/2/04 7:44 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Fr0stbyte124 12/2/04 10:07 p.m.
     Missing: sensation?coldfreak 12/2/04 7:58 p.m.
           Re: Missing: sensation?Strangepurple 12/2/04 8:29 p.m.
           Re: Missing: sensation?Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 1:00 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MSN 12/2/04 9:37 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 10:39 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ThorsHammer 12/2/04 11:22 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:45 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2no7orious 12/3/04 3:42 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2no7orious 12/3/04 3:44 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2vector40 12/2/04 9:49 p.m.
           Dude!KOPD 12/2/04 10:02 p.m.
           Halo againzedd 12/2/04 10:11 p.m.
           The most eloquent response, by far.MikeMan445 12/3/04 1:54 a.m.
                 Now...vector40 12/3/04 5:20 a.m.
                       Re: Now...Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 12/3/04 7:57 a.m.
                 Re: The most eloquent response, by far.Mothergoat 12/3/04 8:53 a.m.
                       Re: The most eloquent response, by far.Fr0stbyte124 12/3/04 3:00 p.m.
                       Re: The most eloquent response, by far.vector40 12/3/04 8:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Starkillah 12/3/04 1:05 a.m.
     reviews like this are killing the communityfludblud 12/3/04 2:39 a.m.
           Re: reviews like this are killing the communityno7orious 12/3/04 3:39 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityEric 12/3/04 5:08 a.m.
                       Re: reviews like this are killing the communityno7orious 12/3/04 6:09 a.m.
                             Re: reviews like this are killing the communityEric 12/3/04 5:35 p.m.
           Re: reviews like this are killing the communitySep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 8:32 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityMothergoat 12/3/04 8:45 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityfludblud 12/5/04 1:53 a.m.
     95% agreement *NM*HK HUNTRKILLR 12/3/04 6:05 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2NokMok 12/3/04 8:44 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 9:06 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2NokMok 12/3/04 12:28 p.m.
                       Re: of XBL / system Link Co-OpSep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 12:32 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Ruum 12/3/04 3:48 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Jammaster 12/3/04 11:25 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2[§]Zéù$ 12/4/04 1:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Infininja 12/5/04 1:22 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Sovietvalor 12/15/04 7:01 p.m.



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