In Response To: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2 (mothergoat)
Mind if I give my own opinion about what you have said, without getting flamed? Okay here we go.
: --------
: Fixing What Wasn’t Broken:
:
: Reflections on Halo 2
::Bungie, with Microsoft’s huge push no doubt, has delivered a marketing
: juggernaut that has successfully blinded many casual fans and critics with
: hype. This creation is Halo 2, an obviously rushed title that
: over-promised and under-delivered. This doesn’t boil down to some simple
: pistol debate or 11-year-old flaming forum thread. I am going to argue
: that Bungie may not really understand why Halo 1 was as great as it was.
: The truth is in Halo 2 and the baffling changes, including uninspired
: level design (both single and multiplayer), how dual wielding ruins single
: wielding and many, many other things. Halo has lost a lot of its
: "jaded crowd" feel. Halo has lost a lot of its identity.
: “We are the jaded crowd.” -Jason Jones
This is really a matter of more opinion here, so I won't really touch it. I like the dual wielding abilities, but it still has flaws which I will get to further down.
: “You could fit all of Halo 1 into a canyon of Halo2.” -Bungie
: Huh? That definitely doesn’t apply to the length of time is takes from
: beginning to end. Playing Halo 1 on Normal is still much longer than Halo
: 2 on Heroic. Halo 2 is short. It doesn’t matter if you rush through it or
: take your time…it’s shorter. So maybe this quote was about the actual file
: size of the levels. Maybe you could the file size of Halo 1 into a file
: size of a canyon in Halo 2 since it theoretically had more complex
: geometry. That has to be what that quote meant.
Actually the levels were longer. Halo 1 had circular levels (like Silent cartographer, an island that you can't get off of unless you had a pelican.) halo2 had more linear levels. I think we were looking at gameplay wise, then actual level length. Silent Cartographer, for example, was long because we alot of objectives we had to go through. While in Halo 2 the levels were more of running and blasting.
: The length definitely won’t be spent standing around in awe at the grand
: landscapes. Halo 2’s repeated corridors, weirdly cartoony jungle
: environments, confusing layouts yet linear design don’t ever seem to try
: to touch such architecture, purpose, landscapes and playscapes of Halo 1
: levels like Halo, Assault on the Control Room, Silent Cartographer or
: Truth and Reconciliation. I felt claustrophobic on too many of the levels
: of Halo 2. Especially the outdoor levels, ironically.
IMO, all the Halo 1 levels had more repeating patterns than Halo 2. Halo 2 had a lot of tight quarters and a lot less "wide space levels" like Halo 1 had. Halo 1 had a little bit more freedom than halo 2 cause you do anything you wanted to do first without having to backtrack.
: Truth and Rehabilitation
: “It will be released when it’s done.” -Bungie
: True or False: Bungie took three years to develop Halo 2. False. Watch the
: DVD extras. Halo 2 was rushed in every way. Much of it was created almost
: from the ground up in one year flat. After the E3 single player demo, they
: realized they had next to nothing done. The strong, dignified mantra of
: “when it’s done” was reduced to a mere “we work better under pressure
: anyway” retort from the documentary footage. That’s actually not true.
: Halo 1 had more care and time in development than Halo 2. It shows in Halo
: 2’s poppy cinematics (If you have to fade to white after every cinema, it
: disrupts the flow just as much as the loading screens that Bungie traded
: the pop-in for. The end of the cinemas in Halo 1 were actual gameplay. No
: fades.) It also shows in the short campaign. It shows in the lack of new
: vehicles. It shows in the lack of multiplayer level design. It shows in
: the undeniably imbalanced starting weapons on XBL. It shows in the ending.
We didn't get to use much of the vehicles in Halo 2, I agree. I wish we could have used the guass hog more. We used it once in Halo 2 SP and then was never used again.
: The only excuse that Bungie may have (that would still be poor) is that
: Microsoft decided that Halo 3 has to be an Xbox Next release title, which
: is a mere one year away. So Bungie would’ve had to scrap most of the ideas
: for Halo 2 to save them for 3, rushing that title out as well. It’s a
: popular theory right now, but doesn’t excuse many other changes. Read on.
I really don't know if this is true or not. Bungie may make a Halo 3, or maybe not.
: Silent Denominator
: Much of Halo 2 multiplayer caters to casual gamers who can’t aim. Halo 1
: catered to people who wanted to get better. I’m not going to drone on
: about the dumbing down of the pistol. (Despite too long of a range, the
: pistol’s accuracy and power is one of Halo 1’s great assets that set it
: apart in a good way. And no Noguchi, I was NOT one of the pistol sniping
: whores. I hardly used the pistol.) However, why Bungie chose to dumb down
: good weapons instead of bring others up is beyond me. Catering to the
: lowest common denominator could only be a motivation of fear that Halo 2
: wouldn’t sell nearly as many copies. Ironically, the only reason Halo 2 is
: selling so well is BECAUSE of how Halo 1 played, not in spite of.
I didn't like the old pistol that much. It's range of fire was too long and it would kill in 3 shots (as you stated). It kinda took properties away from the sniper rifle. I am still glad they took the AR out. The SMG is bad when you only have one, when dual wielding it was better, but not that much. The BR was uncontrollable, I wish they kepted in the single shot zoomed, if would see more play ability because of that. The RL is better, but it rate of fire is slower and you REALLY have to pull the trigger in order to fire it.
: The rocket is nowhere near as effective, even though homing is a nice touch.
: The Battle Rifle and Carbine are no substitute for the pistol. Most
: weapons you will encounter are based on spraying and praying. It’s clear
: that Bungie wants the game dynamics this way since you always spawn with
: the SMG. No longer is the dynamic focused on who can aim better,
: glorifying Halo’s wonderfully tight controls, but rather who can get the
: reticule to turn red and pull the trigger first. It’s as if Bungie made
: Halo 2 multiplayer for Quake, Doom and Unreal fans rather than Halo fans.
: We didn’t need another spray and pray multiplayer.
Look above^^^^^
: These changes were supposed to “balance” gameplay for more “fun.” But the
: fantastic ranking system on XBL does a great job of pairing you with like
: skill anyway, so why mess with the weapon playscape? Those who love to run
: around with bullet hoses won’t be as good and will be paired with like
: players. Those who excel and like to aim will get better and rise in the
: rankings, being paired with their like skill. With so much focus on spray
: and pray, the rankings will become less accurate, undermining the purpose
: of the rankings system.
Look up again^^^^^
: Assault on the Grenade Boom
: The change that is not recoverable via download and the one change that
: dampened much of the satisfaction I got from playing Halo 1 single and
: multiplayer is the newly nerfed physics engine. Puzzling. Disappointing.
: This is the one area that Bungie was absolutely silent about changing. Did
: Bungie really think we wouldn’t notice? Not only is the blast radius of a
: grenade and rocket severely and reduced for no good reason, but the force
: with which they impact a vehicle is not only unsatisfying but hardly
: existent.
Huh, everytime I blew up a hog, it flew across the screen. The grenades are really.....insipid. They aren't even worth using anymore except for the PG.
: I remember Blood Gulch (Halo 1). I saw an enemy warthog incoming. I threw an
: accurately placed grenade to detonate on the backside of the moving hog.
: The hog would gloriously fly with correct trajectory, killing some or all
: of the passengers while a great deal of rewarding satisfaction came over
: me as the wonderful explosion animation full of dirt and grass subsided.
: In Halo 2, the hog keeps on going, not flinching. In fact, place a grenade
: by any non-moving vehicle. It hardly moves. Makes sense for tanks and
: Wraiths just like Halo 1, but grenades and the physics have lost almost
: all of their fun factor.
Look above at last two entries^^^^^^^
: The minute I saw that Bungie was using the Havok physics engine I knew I
: should probably prepare for the reduction in fun but with exaggerated body
: movements. So was it so that the net code would be smoother? If so, it
: still wasn’t a good tradeoff. Halo lost a ton of personality with the
: physics changes.
What do you mean? The death scenes were repetative. Sometimes when I shot two guys at once they would die and fall down the same way. Sure some of the deaths became exaggerated, but as you said it is fun when it is fake.
: 343 Lonely Spartan
: I am all about playing as the Arbiter. Great twist! But the human element of
: Earth’s destruction is non-existent. We’ve been led on with “Earth will
: never be the same” for the sole purpose of setting us up for the big
: twist. Earth is neglected almost entirely. The ending sets up a second
: level on Earth, but of course, the credits start to roll. I wanted to
: learn about Chief. The story seems way too rushed and convoluted. This
: really lends a lot to the Halo 3 next year theory. Since Halo 2
: essentially ends where we thought it would start.
I think you and many other people went too into this. They said that in the commercials and ads because they didn't want to give away the MAJOR plot. Sure we fought on earth, but was that the MAIN plot of halo 2? We had to fight on another Halo, if we only fought on earth, we would have to call the game Earth 2.
: What also makes the 11 Halo 2 maps (Foundation doesn’t even count), feel even
: less in number is that time wasn’t taken to make them friendly for all
: gametypes. I could play almost any gametype on any Halo 1 map and feel it
: was fun. Halo 2, not so much. While this isn’t necessarily a horrible
: thing, the fact that it exists should’ve prompted Bungie to release at
: least twice the maps with the shipped version of Halo 2.
: The Halo 2 maps just don’t scream Halo.
Here is another problem people are forgetting, We don't have 11 playable Multiplayer maps. Remember, we are getting more through DLC, and maybe some of the maps we have can be changed. If it happened in Rainbow Six it can happen here.
: “Real” Betrayals
: It’s apparent from the DVD extras that much time and money was spent on
: making some of Halo 2 seem more “real.” There are endless cries and
: defenses on several Halo forums citing “well at least it’s more real” as a
: valid defense for the weapons debate, multiplayer maps and so on.
: Let’s get this straight. Reality is boring. That is why video games excel.
: Games are NOT reality and can transport you into a fictional world full of
: fun. Instead of making Halo more “Halo,” Bungie chose to make the weapons
: and mp landscapes more “real” in a sci-fi world full of aliens and ring
: worlds. So in real life, a bullet hose would cause so much force that you
: couldn’t keep it level. Okay. So what happened to the superhuman strength
: of a Spartan? Apparently those SMGs pack so much punch that even Chief has
: a hard time keeping ‘em down. Why make the most common gun have such a
: drawback when it’s the weakest to begin with?
: Screw reality. Exalt fun.
Well, the spartans can't really lift Tanks can they? In fact I believe in one book Master Cheif could barely lift the Warthog an flip it. The recoil was to even it out. If it wasn't put in, then you can be killed instantly with an SMG across the map. But this is in my opinion.
: Keys
: Vehicles. Poof! They’re gone. We get to drive a Wraith and a Spectre now.
: Okay, cool. What? That’s it? Where is the human answer to the Banshee? The
: Kestrel was there. Ready to go. Perfectly in place as a cool new air ride.
: Not even in single player. Couldn’t tame the ATV? I don’t buy it. It
: flipped too much? So does the new ‘hog. But there is a rolling assistance
: that usually gets the ‘hog back on its wheels. Could’ve done the same with
: the ATV.
What human answer to the banshee? I didn't read anything on saying that Bungie was coming out with a vehicle that was an equivilant to the banshee. I don't think we even have technology that has the same physics and properties as the Banshee. I agree with you whole hardely about the ATV though. If they can tweak the Wraith to be in Multiplayer, then they can tweak the ATV.
: The new Banshee handling is bad. It can no longer hover. Worried about
: Banshee camping? Just make it more fragile. It wasn’t that bad in PC at
: all. Even with the fuel rod pulse bomb thing. I played PC religiously and
: NEVER was Banshee whoring a factor in non-noob games.
You the hover ability when you push back on the joystick? it is still there except we don't have to pull back on the joystick.
: The new warthog isn’t as fun, either. In Halo 1, the ‘hog would always
: automatically compensate for wherever the reticule was pointing despite
: the swervy wervy-ness of it. Whoever said that the Warthog handling needed
: to change was wrong. It was easy to get used to. Now it’s wound so tight
: that it’s hardly fun to use anymore even with the e-brake. Even using
: ramps isn’t as fun. The air it gets feels stale and ordinary…like the UT
: 2004 vehicle physics. Blah.
I also agree with you here.
: The Paws
: Dual wielding is a great idea on paper and works really well in single
: player. But in multiplayer when you always spawn with one short range
: bullet hose, especially the uber-weak SMG, it’s off to the races to find
: at least something else. Single wielding a dual-capable weapon is an
: immediate imbalance. By making dual wielding a focus, you immediately cut
: the usability of just one of those weapons in half. Instead of
: concentrating on strategy or defending your flag when you respawn, you
: have the added task of finding something useful to dual wield so that when
: you engage in the spray and pray battle, you have at least a hope.
Well, the plasma rifle and SMG are a great combo.
: In the end, I will be playing a lot of Halo 2 on XBL because Halo 1 isn’t on
: there. I guarantee you that if Halo 1 was re-released with the same Xbox
: Live capabilities, more people would prefer Halo 1. No doubt in my mind.
My conclusion: I believe that everyone here was expecting TOO HIGH on Halo 2. I like to see everyone else here make a game that everyone will enjoy and noone would complain about it, it is impossible. Some of the things you have stated above are good points, but some of them can be fixed through DLC. The only things that I am upset about is the missing feature of leaning, "running", the melee combo, the lack of use of the Guass warthog, the new 4 different types of warthogs, and the ATV.
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