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| Re: History | |
| Posted By: Cody Miller | Date: 6/21/12 10:51 a.m. |
In Response To: Re: History (Hawaiian Pig) : It baffles me how narrowly you'll define something when backed into a corner. : This happened when we discussed the meaning of the term "gameplay". : Step back and ask yourself what you're doing. How can you draw a distinction
: There are stories that are non-fiction. Not denying this. However a STORYTELLER creates a story based on facts, dramatizing it. It's not a story to just list every event that happened. What they choose to include, and what to omit, is of extreme importance, as well as which CHARACTER to focus on. : This isn't even an opinion, this is strictly how words work. : A story is quite simply a recounting of a sequence of events. A good story is
Rules of possible interactions are unable to tell stories, since they merely define what is possible, not what actually happens. You cannot get Miracle on Ice by looking at the Ice Hockey Rule book. : If you accept that a choose your own adventure novel is in fact a story--or
Again, every single one of these without exception was terrible, and in most there was an obvious 'best' path, negating the entire purpose really. : Yes, the viewer, reader, and audience have control over their experience. The
You have control over stories YOU create while playing games, but you do not have control over what the developer has written. : For example, while an artist may intend their painting to represent a given
: Ah, the way the paint splatter hits the canvas truly screams
As an artist, you do have an obligation to consider your target audience and how they will react when you make your work. : In a a bit more of a contrived example, when it comes to stories, a reader
: The exciting part about video games as a medium for telling a story is the
But that's not storytelling by the developers, it's storytelling by the players. Deus Ex is genius AS A GAME, but it is not good storytelling. If you want players to have control over the story, which can be a good GAME MECHANIC, then you need to give up a good tight, focused story. AND THAT IS OKAY. : The idea that we can develop a rich environment with multiple choices or
: Take Pulp fiction. Pulp Fiction is one of film's best attempts to show many
: Video games allow us to create all of these vantage points, and allow the
If you rearranged the presentation of these scenes, then the film would have been experienced dramatically differently. This is the order the director and editor wanted you to see it in, because they thought this particular configuration was most effective. : In a Pulp Fiction game, you could choose to play as Vincent and experience
Then those choices are not meaningful if you end up sticking to the scrip regardless of what you choose. : Maybe the next time you pick up the game you choose to play as Jules and it's
A story is much much more than a collection of themes. : A lot of your complaints about choice seem to be centered upon game breaking
: RUINED. Right? : Fuck this Jules, I'm out. : This is ridiculous. Developers are capable of limiting player choice. It's
But hat's bullshit, and players realize this. That is why Deus Ex was so good, YOU COULD DO NEARLY ANYTHING. You could kill your commanding officer near the start of the game, and the story can still progress. You could do the most ridiculous shit that would break any other game, and it still works by wrapping the story around whatever action you take. : The current problem is that games currently tell a linear story. These
A non linear story is an oxymoron dude. Time within the story could jump around (Primer, Momento etc), but the actual telling of it takes place sequentially in real time. : But they still tell a story. : I mean, you wouldn't deny that would you? : I know you'll argue that the story is told via other means (i.e. cutscenes or
: The idea, here, is to allow the story to unfold via gameplay . Impossible since they are totally at odds. Look how well that's worked out in every game but Deus Ex. : The proposed solution is to present the player with meaningful choices, but
THAT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF GIVING THEM CHOICE! Why are you giving them a choice when you already have an idea about where the story is going? The whole point of letting the player decide is so that THEY CHOOSE HOW THE STORY GOES. If their choices still follow your story, then their choices aren't in fact significant are they? : Create a world where the all of the paths of all the various choices you
That can't happen. Again, everything would have to be so boring and sterile to account for all the choices. Events would have to have no effect on people if choices are later going to be made. Whenever you let the player make a major choice, and they choose 'wrong', you ruin the narrative up to that point if it was good. : A lot of games are scratching the surface of this capability of the medium,
I really hear this a lot, and I don't think that's true. We have had 50 years and haven't even come close to what you want. : With Pulp Fiction on the mind, I look at games like Grand Theft Auto. This
Unfocused. You can do missions in any order, skip them, or dilly around for hours. This totally impacts dramatic presentation. By the way, GTA uses cutscenes. : The biggest restraint on this is not the medium, it's the fact that
: I mean, what happens if Tommy killed Lance in their first encounter?
: In fact, what would result is a totally different story. What's stopping that
: Imagine that game. Imagine a game where if Lance died at any point during a
: Imagine that happening for a large set of meaningful choices in the game. : In this example, you'd end up with something like The Wire. Where the story's
Wrong. You always see things through the perspective of characters in a narrative. That's how stories work. Otherwise it is not a 'story'.
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