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Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea
Posted By: Kermit <kermi7@mac.com>	Date: 6/20/12 11:55 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea (Cody Miller) : Yes, and there are games like this (Deus Ex). The issue is that it becomes : the player's story, not the storyteller's. You cannot have it both ways. : The more you let the player interact and effect the story, the more you : give up your right over claim to the narrative. What you just described : would be a very good game indeed, but not one someone could praise for : storytelling. : Gaming is incredibly mature. It's been around for how many years now? The : first video game came out in 1962. That means gaming is 50 years old. 50 : years after the birth of film you had tons of films that are wonderful and : stunning works of art. People are asking where gaming's Citizen Kane is? : That should tell you something. : If anything the maturation in gaming has slowed. We are forgoing improving : mechanics over graphics, design and story. : Deus Ex was such a brilliant game, and I am so shocked at how Human : Revolution screwed it up. This is unfathomable to me. You are making the : sequel to one of the best games ever made - all you have to do is keep : everything that works and fix what didn't (Deus Ex had a lot of flaws). It : seems so easy, but modern game design once again ruins everything, and in : my opinion Human Revolution is just another modern FPS. : To top it off, Deus Ex was an amazing, perhaps the BEST example of allowing a : player to dictate the story through his actions. If games are still : maturing, its sequel should do that BETTER. But it doesn't. It totally : fucks it up. One could praise it for its ability to have the player experience a great story without claiming that story as belonging to someone. And ultimately, even with something like literature, it's not like writers deliberately inserted all the symbolism that readers find. Readers complete the circle. Some of the best art isn't fully conscious. The nature of (great) art is ambiguity. I think we can agree on the principle as far as what might be possible at least, and I'm encouraged by the fact that we're exactly on the same page in regards to Deus Ex. Haven't quite finished HR, but I see the writing on the wall. I get the impression sometimes that you don't want a Citizen Cane of gaming, that that's not in the cards. I think of maturing two ways, as a form and technologically. As the technology improves and the low-hanging fruit hangs even lower I think that opens up the possibilities of the form because resources become less of an issue. I, too, hope for another Deus Ex, only better. Kermit

Message Index

Prometheus *OT*	Miguel Chavez	6/8/12 2:08 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Chris101b	6/8/12 3:18 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	TDSpiral	6/8/12 5:16 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Dagoonite	6/9/12 10:38 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Miguel Chavez	6/9/12 1:26 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	scarab	6/8/12 7:17 a.m.
Just tell me one thing *Asking 4 Spoils*	JDQuackers	6/8/12 7:18 a.m.
Re: Just tell me one thing *Asking 4 Spoils*	General Battuta	6/8/12 9:04 a.m.
Re: Just tell me one thing *Asking 4 Spoils*	scarab	6/8/12 9:31 a.m.
*SPOILS*	Miguel Chavez	6/8/12 10:37 a.m.
What a dreadful disappointment *SP*	General Battuta	6/8/12 9:06 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Beckx	6/8/12 9:33 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	General Battuta	6/8/12 9:38 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	Beckx	6/8/12 9:43 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	bluerunner	6/8/12 10:16 a.m.
I took the day off for this sh*t?	Kermit	6/8/12 10:18 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	scarab	6/8/12 10:29 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	Miguel Chavez	6/8/12 10:46 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	scarab	6/8/12 10:55 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	Miguel Chavez	6/8/12 11:32 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	scarab	6/8/12 12:13 p.m.
Link	scarab	6/8/12 11:09 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	Quirel	6/8/12 11:08 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	scarab	6/8/12 11:11 a.m.
LOL *NM*	SonofMacPhisto	6/9/12 3:09 p.m.
Well then...	Mid7night	6/8/12 9:58 a.m.
Same *NM*	JDQuackers	6/8/12 10:00 a.m.
Re: Yep. *NM* *NM*	Beckx	6/8/12 10:12 a.m.
The more trailers I saw the less I expected	scarab	6/8/12 10:42 a.m.
This is a horrible mindset to take.	Postmortem	6/9/12 7:44 p.m.
Guess I'm waiting for $1 movie night...	davidfuchs	6/8/12 10:21 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Cody Miller	6/8/12 10:33 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	General Battuta	6/8/12 10:45 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	scarab	6/8/12 10:51 a.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT* *SP*	Miguel Chavez	6/8/12 10:52 a.m.
Re: Hideo Kojima says...	Beckx	6/8/12 4:26 p.m.
Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment please	Metalingus627	6/8/12 6:05 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/14/12 11:40 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Beckx	6/14/12 12:20 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	thebruce0	6/14/12 12:57 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	munky-058	6/14/12 12:51 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	RC Master	6/14/12 4:01 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/14/12 7:12 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	hunt3r	6/14/12 6:45 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Hawaiian Pig	6/15/12 12:18 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	uberfoop	6/15/12 2:20 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Quantum	6/15/12 2:41 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Quantum	6/15/12 4:03 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/15/12 11:50 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/15/12 12:44 p.m.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. *NM*	Leisandir	6/15/12 1:14 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Hawaiian Pig	6/15/12 8:50 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/18/12 12:32 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/18/12 12:38 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	thebruce0	6/18/12 1:27 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/18/12 4:37 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	mnemesis	6/18/12 5:33 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/18/12 5:57 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	thebruce0	6/18/12 11:01 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/19/12 12:03 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Louis Wu	6/19/12 7:28 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/19/12 10:11 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Louis Wu	6/19/12 10:16 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/19/12 1:22 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Stryfe Bringer	6/19/12 1:41 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/19/12 1:50 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Stryfe Bringer	6/19/12 2:18 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/20/12 8:47 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/20/12 10:59 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/20/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/20/12 12:53 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/20/12 2:10 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/20/12 5:12 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/20/12 7:54 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Kermit	6/20/12 7:59 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	uberfoop	6/20/12 8:14 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Jillybean	6/19/12 1:39 p.m.
History	Cody Miller	6/19/12 1:49 p.m.
Re: History	Jillybean	6/19/12 2:08 p.m.
Re: History	Hawaiian Pig	6/21/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: History	Hawaiian Pig	6/21/12 5:11 a.m.
Re: History	Miguel Chavez	6/21/12 7:22 a.m.
Re: History	Cody Miller	6/21/12 10:56 a.m.
Re: History	Leisandir	6/21/12 11:21 a.m.
Thoughts Collected	Cody Miller	6/21/12 1:17 p.m.
Re: Thoughts Collected	thebruce0	6/21/12 2:28 p.m.
(correction)	thebruce0	6/21/12 2:39 p.m.
Re: (correction)	Cody Miller	6/21/12 3:53 p.m.
Re: (correction)	Kermit	6/21/12 5:06 p.m.
Re: (correction)	thebruce0	6/21/12 5:19 p.m.
And then Mass Effect proved Cody wrong...	munky-058	6/21/12 6:18 p.m.
Re: And then Mass Effect proved Cody wrong...	General Battuta	6/22/12 9:30 a.m.
Re: Thoughts Collected	Leisandir	6/22/12 8:08 a.m.
Yep. Very this. *NM*	thebruce0	6/21/12 8:46 a.m.
Re: History	Cody Miller	6/21/12 10:51 a.m.
I... just... *headdesk* *NM*	thebruce0	6/21/12 12:07 p.m.
Re: History	DHalo	6/22/12 1:58 p.m.
A++++ Post Would Read Again	Jillybean	6/21/12 2:03 p.m.
Agreed. *NM*	Kermit	6/21/12 5:07 p.m.
What Wu said. I got nothin' else for ya... *NM*	thebruce0	6/19/12 8:48 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	thebruce0	6/18/12 9:38 a.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	Cody Miller	6/18/12 11:20 a.m.
Cody Miller: Video Games CAN tell stories! *NM*	thebruce0	6/18/12 1:23 p.m.
Re: Cody Miller: No story in my entertainment plea	agdtinman	6/18/12 7:46 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Hedgemony	6/8/12 10:46 a.m.
Man, I was excited to see this on my birthday *NM*	CYBRFRK	6/8/12 10:56 a.m.
I liked it.	BlueNinja	6/8/12 2:15 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	Kermit	6/8/12 9:17 p.m.
sorry for the rampart italic tag *NM*	Kermit	6/8/12 9:19 p.m.
rampant ^ *NM*	Kermit	6/8/12 9:20 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT Concur	yakaman	6/9/12 2:27 a.m.
You know	Tex	6/9/12 4:55 a.m.
Re: You know	Hedgemony	6/9/12 6:46 a.m.
Re: You know	Kermit	6/9/12 8:20 a.m.
Re: You know	Hawki	6/9/12 9:12 a.m.
Re: You know	Tex	6/9/12 12:39 p.m.
Re: You know	Miguel Chavez	6/9/12 1:30 p.m.
Re: You know	Miguel Chavez	6/9/12 1:33 p.m.
Re: You know	SonofMacPhisto	6/9/12 3:09 p.m.
:(	Postmortem	6/9/12 1:21 p.m.
Haters gonna hate.	Postmortem	6/9/12 6:17 p.m.
Re: Haters gonna hate.	Kermit	6/9/12 9:55 p.m.
The theory that makes me love it:	Jillybean	6/9/12 2:39 p.m.
This is what the film needed...	Miguel Chavez	6/9/12 3:25 p.m.
Re: This is what the film needed...	Jillybean	6/9/12 4:11 p.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	Tex	6/9/12 5:16 p.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	Jillybean	6/9/12 5:25 p.m.
Classic reply on reddit	scarab	6/10/12 4:19 a.m.
LOST in Space, rather. *NM*	Ma1agate	6/10/12 1:14 p.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	Hawki	6/9/12 5:39 p.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	scarab	6/10/12 4:57 a.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	Dagoonite	6/10/12 7:52 a.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	scarab	6/10/12 9:46 a.m.
Re: The theory that makes me love it:	Jillybean	6/10/12 11:02 a.m.
This will throw you through the wall	Cody Miller	6/14/12 11:44 a.m.
Re: This will throw you through the wall	Jillybean	6/14/12 5:10 p.m.
Re: This will throw you through the wall	hunt3r	6/14/12 6:42 p.m.
Re: This will throw you through the wall	Cody Miller	6/14/12 7:19 p.m.
Re: This will throw you through the wall	hunt3r	6/14/12 8:12 p.m.
Re: This will throw you through the wall	Miguel Chavez	6/15/12 3:19 p.m.
My thoughts	Postmortem	6/9/12 7:00 p.m.
Re: My thoughts	Hawki	6/9/12 7:21 p.m.
Re: My thoughts	Postmortem	6/9/12 7:35 p.m.
Nailed it!	Miguel Chavez	6/10/12 1:41 a.m.
Re: Nailed it! Agreed, again.	yakaman	6/10/12 10:10 a.m.
Re: Nailed it! Agreed, again.	Jillybean	6/10/12 11:07 a.m.
Re: Nailed it! Agreed, again.	yakaman	6/10/12 12:33 p.m.
Prometheus = Halo + Lost.	Ma1agate	6/10/12 12:55 p.m.
Heh	Jillybean	6/10/12 4:25 p.m.
Not even reading the discussion	Nikko B201	6/10/12 4:26 p.m.
It worked! *NM*	Nikko B201	6/10/12 4:33 p.m.
Re: It worked!	Jillybean	6/10/12 4:37 p.m.
Admins? What admins?	Nikko B201	6/10/12 4:38 p.m.
Re: Admins? What admins?	Jillybean	6/10/12 4:39 p.m.
Re: Admins? What admins?	Nikko B201	6/10/12 4:41 p.m.
Re: Admins? What admins?	Jillybean	6/10/12 4:44 p.m.
Re: Admins? What admins?	Louis Wu	6/10/12 4:47 p.m.
Thanks. [he said sheepishly] *NM*	Kermit	6/10/12 6:49 p.m.
Re: Heh	Tex	6/10/12 4:27 p.m.
Re: Heh	Jillybean	6/10/12 4:28 p.m.
Re: Heh	Cody Miller	6/10/12 8:12 p.m.
Re: Heh	Cody Miller	6/10/12 8:25 p.m.
Re: Heh	scarab	6/11/12 8:24 a.m.
BTW, did anyone catch the Halo connection?	Postmortem	6/11/12 1:13 p.m.
Share? *NM*	davidfuchs	6/11/12 1:40 p.m.
What's a battle? What's a diorama?	PyroSporker16	6/11/12 1:45 p.m.
Re: BTW, did anyone catch the Halo connection?	Subtank	6/11/12 1:58 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	DrDoctor	6/14/12 4:31 p.m.
Re: Prometheus *OT*	DrDoctor	6/14/12 4:54 p.m.
Just saw it	Archilen	6/20/12 8:36 a.m.
Re: Just saw it	Miguel Chavez	6/20/12 8:43 a.m.
Re: omg haloooooooo	Revenant1988	6/20/12 12:38 p.m.
Tell that author to use his inside type.	bryan newman	6/20/12 4:06 p.m.
Yeah, The Two Towers sucked...	munky-058	6/20/12 6:56 p.m.