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Re: Hey Wu...?
Posted By: HoovaloovDate: 3/21/12 5:31 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Hey Wu...? (RC Master)


RC, I've read all of your articles so far, and while they are well written, I feel that you sometimes are assigning the blame to the gametypes instead of the true problem - bad matchmaking. Just because a gametype allows a certain behavior doesn't make it common (i.e. not getting any kills in Headhunter and just collecting dead team mates' skulls NEVER happens).

Most of the problems you mention (which seem to center around objective holding and griefing in general) don't come up nearly as often when two evenly skilled teams are matched. However, I do agree about ending objective games early when there's no way the other team can come back to win.

But really, the main issue I have with your articles is that you chose to hold off on your ideas on how to fix the gametypes until (I suppose) the last articles. This makes reading the articles feel like, "2 Flag sucks. All other objective modes suck. Oh and Slayer sucks. Even the other types of Slayer suck. Living Dead sucks. Everything sucks."

I wish you would have made each article a self-contained piece on what's wrong with a particular gametype and include ideas on how to fix them at the end of each. So your 2 Flag article would have the "highlights" at the beginning, "criticism" in the main body, and "ideas how to fix it" at the end. This would make it much more enjoyable to read and wouldn't make it feel like you hate playing Halo, which is how you sort of came across when I read it.

: Well, each to their own. I like Invasion because the availability of powerful
: weapons and vehicles allow even a single player to do a lot.

I pretty much completely disagree. :) Invasion spawns you with really un-fun weapons (AR/Pistol or Plasma Repeaters/Plasma Pistols) and there's absolutely no power weapons or fun vehicles available on the map until later rounds.

: I actually like that you can actively adopt roles on your team more readily
: than in other gametypes since it directs the overall flow of combat better
: than other gametypes where I'm never quite sure what to do.

There really aren't any roles in Invasion. It's just throw yourself into the territories over and over again until you unlock the next phase. Or on defense, it's just stand in one spot and watch a stairway until the bad guys go through. There's way too much waiting around for encounters.

And later, when fun vehicles enter the mix, it's almost detrimental to use them. Any team mate in a Banshee or Wraith on Boneyard's 3rd phase is doing nothing to help the team get the core out of the base. In fact, that team mate is making it harder to extract the core because his team is always one man down when they try to fight it out in that room.

Maybe this is more map design problems, I haven't played any custom Invasion games to see how this would be different. But in general, I dislike how map control tactics have been nullified. The rest of the map doesn't matter, only the little room the objective is in.

Along those lines, I don't find the flow of the gametype to be fun or interesting in any way. The maps all have really bottlenecked routes to the objectives (Boneyard 1st phase, Spire 2nd phase, etc). Also the attackers can't ever come up with "rushes" or other tactics because the defenders spawn right next to the objectives and there are no power weapons or vehicles outside the base that make it necessary for them to leave.

So the first phase always consists of the attackers spawning, walking forever across the map, choosing one of two staircases to enter the base, and then dying. Meanwhile the defenders spawn, sit at the base waiting for the attackers to get there, hide around corners of the stairways, and never leave the base. There is no flow, no tactics, no power weapons, and no vehicles for the first third of the gametype. Contrast this with Rush from Battlefield where players get to spawn in all the cool vehicles right away.

I think Invasion needs to spawn both teams equally far away from the objective, and also have power weapons and fun vehicles scattered around. This would allow tactical decisions (teams would have to choose between rushing the objective versus trying to acquire all power weapons) for each team, and would also increase variety in the encounters (does anyone like AR vs Plasma Repeater battles?). Invasion gets boring because there's not a lot of choice involved when playing the gametype. You might say this makes it clear what the objective is, but I consider it being boxed in, and Halo to me has always been about freedom in map flow.

Just my $0.02. :)


Message Index




Replies:

Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 7:20 a.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1melee 3/19/12 9:11 a.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Apirishin 3/19/12 9:39 a.m.
           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 1:49 p.m.
     This is why I prefer FFA ObjectivesSonGoharotto 3/19/12 10:35 a.m.
           Re: This is why I prefer FFA ObjectivesRC Master 3/19/12 2:05 p.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 12:49 p.m.
           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 3:01 p.m.
                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 3:30 p.m.
                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Bosticman 3/19/12 5:02 p.m.
                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 4:03 p.m.
                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 4:44 p.m.
                             Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 5:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 5:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 7:32 p.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 7:43 p.m.
                                               Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Revenant1988 3/19/12 8:05 p.m.
                                                     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 8:33 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/20/12 7:58 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Revenant1988 3/20/12 8:33 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/20/12 9:29 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Apirishin 3/20/12 10:04 a.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 7:44 p.m.
                                               Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 10:18 p.m.
                                                     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 10:49 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 11:58 p.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 10:09 p.m.
     Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooRC Master 3/20/12 8:12 a.m.
           Re: Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooZaneZavin 3/20/12 10:57 a.m.
                 Re: Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooRC Master 3/20/12 12:10 p.m.
     Part 3 - Slayer's ProblemsRC Master 3/20/12 11:55 a.m.
           Re: Part 3 - Slayer's ProblemsBeckx 3/20/12 12:01 p.m.
           Invasion slayer.uberfoop 3/20/12 12:09 p.m.
                 Re: Invasion slayer.RC Master 3/20/12 12:15 p.m.
                       Re: Invasion slayer.uberfoop 3/20/12 12:32 p.m.
                       I was wondering about that...SonGoharotto 3/20/12 1:58 p.m.
                             Re: I was wondering about that...bluerunner 3/20/12 2:11 p.m.
                                   Re: I was wondering about that...Beckx 3/20/12 2:31 p.m.
                                   Invasion is awesome. (LONG)Revenant1988 3/20/12 2:50 p.m.
                                         Agreed.Gravemind 3/20/12 3:14 p.m.
                                               Re: Agreed.Apirishin 3/20/12 3:45 p.m.
                                                     What if Invasion didn't mean taking turns?SonGoharotto 3/20/12 4:23 p.m.
                                                           Re: What if Invasion didn't mean taking turns?Apirishin 3/20/12 4:27 p.m.
                                                                 ^ This *NM*SonGoharotto 3/20/12 4:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Invasion is awesome. (LONG)RC Master 3/21/12 12:15 a.m.
                                   Changing The NarrativeSonGoharotto 3/20/12 3:41 p.m.
     Part 4 - Broken, but can it still be fun?RC Master 3/20/12 8:58 p.m.
     Part 5 - Invasion & RushRC Master 3/20/12 11:37 p.m.
     Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/21/12 3:32 a.m.
           Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 8:19 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?Sqorck 3/21/12 8:58 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?Revenant1988 3/21/12 9:00 a.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 9:18 a.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?Revenant1988 3/21/12 9:36 a.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?CaneCutter 3/21/12 10:18 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/21/12 1:31 p.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 1:52 p.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?Miguel Chavez 3/22/12 12:05 a.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?DEEP NNN 3/22/12 6:37 a.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/22/12 12:55 p.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Hoovaloov 3/21/12 5:31 p.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/22/12 2:34 p.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?Hoovaloov 3/22/12 7:26 p.m.
     Part 6 - 3-Plot TerritoriesRC Master 3/22/12 10:45 a.m.
           Re: Part 6 - 3-Plot TerritoriesZaneZavin 3/22/12 4:25 p.m.
           Re: Part 6 - 3-Plot Territoriesnillapuddin 3/22/12 7:37 p.m.
     Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/23/12 8:51 a.m.
           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 11:34 a.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/23/12 12:23 p.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 12:32 p.m.
                             Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/23/12 12:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 12:53 p.m.
                                   Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 1:52 p.m.
                                         Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/24/12 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/24/12 7:08 p.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/24/12 7:21 p.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/24/12 7:56 p.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:52 a.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:48 a.m.
                                               Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:40 a.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/25/12 10:59 a.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/25/12 11:51 a.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/26/12 5:28 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/26/12 7:32 p.m.
                                                                       Pete, you have a dealRC Master 4/4/12 2:10 p.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 1:43 p.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 9:48 a.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 12:48 p.m.
                             Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/26/12 12:50 a.m.
           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeHoovaloov 3/26/12 1:51 a.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/26/12 8:46 a.m.
     Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedRC Master 3/25/12 6:10 p.m.
           Re: Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedHoovaloov 3/26/12 2:24 a.m.
                 Re: Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedRC Master 3/26/12 4:50 a.m.
     Part 9 - A different way to AssaultRC Master 4/4/12 2:32 p.m.
     Part 10 & 11 - Weird versions of Oddball, King etcRC Master 4/10/12 1:51 p.m.
           :'( no reactions at all?RC Master 4/11/12 3:06 p.m.
                 I only just caught upSonGoharotto 4/11/12 9:40 p.m.
                       Re: I only just caught upRC Master 4/12/12 9:21 a.m.
                             Re: I only just caught upSonGoharotto 4/12/12 8:08 p.m.
           Re: Part 10 & 11 - Weird versions of Oddball, Kingstabbim 4/12/12 3:32 p.m.



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