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Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1
Posted By: RC MasterDate: 3/19/12 3:01 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1 (Pkmnrulz240)


: First thing: There is a typo in the first sentence of the paragraph starting
: with "While the dominant team..." :)

Thanks. :)

: Halo 1 was famous for, among many other things, its epic games of CTF.

Yes, but that was on LAN, with familiar players.

: I think I rarely played any assault games back then,

Assault was a Halo 2+ gametype.

: CTF really should have its own playlist

Some have suggested that, but that wouldn't suddenly solve the Flag gametypes' flaws.

: and ball, territories, KOTH assault should all be lumped in
: another playlist. Why don't I play more objective? Because I don't want to
: get stuck with one of those 10 minutes of horror gametypes.

LOL. 2 Objective playlists, one all Flag, and one everything else? The 'everything else' playlist would die within a month. I guarantee it.

: Not sure I understand what you mean even after reading the article. I think
: this has something to do with the incentives of kills vs. objectives, but
: I don't want to assume.

Yes. What part wasn't clear? In-game, the only thing players are taught through the cR is that killing is good. There IS a reward for winning objective gametypes, but it is delayed and starts off fairly inconsequential in size in comparison, and never gets huge compared to simply participating.

: I guess I'm not sure how this is a problem. There are always going to be
: instances in which one team is just much better at coordination of efforts
: and can just lock down the other team, preventing them from getting any
: kills or completing any objectives. I might not be fully understanding
: your point here either, so if I'm not, please elaborate.

Team A is comprised of the 4 best players in the world. Team B is comprised of the 4 worst players in the world.
Two situations:
1. Team A destroys Team B at the initial engagement, grabs their flag, captures it and keeps them down while efficiently capturing two more flags. Game is over in under 90 seconds
2. Team A destroys Team B at the initial engagement, grabs their flag, captures it, and then just kills Team B repeatedly while they spawn. Near the end of the game, one of Team A grabs the flag again and holds it until time runs down so the remaining 3 players can get a few more kills.

In both situations Team B got destroyed and Team A won easily. But which situation is preferable? Which situation minimises Team B's misery?

This is a REGULAR occurance (to varying degress) in objective gametypes.

: Solution: Huge bonuses for game completion credits.

That's one thing you can do, but while many people are motivated highly by Credits, not everyone is and that doesn't solve the problem. In the Reach paradigm for example, when people hit max rank or obtain all the armour pieces they want, they might simply want an easy game or to work on their commendations.

: That's part of any capture the flag strategy. You don't immediately know what
: the other team is going to do, so you have to either take risks or play it
: safe. I'm not sure why this is a problem.

Because risks often end in failure and playing it safe leads to long stalemates around the middle of map. Look at 2-Flag BTB CTF on Hemmorhage for example - long games, infrequent captures, little or no coordination. Gets boring after a while (and I've come to hate that map anyway).

This is a two-Flag problem, 1-Flag doesn't suffer from it and neither does Neutral Flag.


Message Index




Replies:

Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 7:20 a.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1melee 3/19/12 9:11 a.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Apirishin 3/19/12 9:39 a.m.
           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 1:49 p.m.
     This is why I prefer FFA ObjectivesSonGoharotto 3/19/12 10:35 a.m.
           Re: This is why I prefer FFA ObjectivesRC Master 3/19/12 2:05 p.m.
     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 12:49 p.m.
           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 3:01 p.m.
                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 3:30 p.m.
                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Bosticman 3/19/12 5:02 p.m.
                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 4:03 p.m.
                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 4:44 p.m.
                             Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 5:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 5:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/19/12 7:32 p.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 7:43 p.m.
                                               Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Revenant1988 3/19/12 8:05 p.m.
                                                     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Pkmnrulz240 3/19/12 8:33 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/20/12 7:58 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Revenant1988 3/20/12 8:33 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1RC Master 3/20/12 9:29 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Apirishin 3/20/12 10:04 a.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 7:44 p.m.
                                               Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 10:18 p.m.
                                                     Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1uberfoop 3/19/12 10:49 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 11:58 p.m.
                                         Re: Why Halo's Objective Gametypes Suck - Part 1Gravemind 3/19/12 10:09 p.m.
     Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooRC Master 3/20/12 8:12 a.m.
           Re: Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooZaneZavin 3/20/12 10:57 a.m.
                 Re: Part 2 -Why the other objectives suck tooRC Master 3/20/12 12:10 p.m.
     Part 3 - Slayer's ProblemsRC Master 3/20/12 11:55 a.m.
           Re: Part 3 - Slayer's ProblemsBeckx 3/20/12 12:01 p.m.
           Invasion slayer.uberfoop 3/20/12 12:09 p.m.
                 Re: Invasion slayer.RC Master 3/20/12 12:15 p.m.
                       Re: Invasion slayer.uberfoop 3/20/12 12:32 p.m.
                       I was wondering about that...SonGoharotto 3/20/12 1:58 p.m.
                             Re: I was wondering about that...bluerunner 3/20/12 2:11 p.m.
                                   Re: I was wondering about that...Beckx 3/20/12 2:31 p.m.
                                   Invasion is awesome. (LONG)Revenant1988 3/20/12 2:50 p.m.
                                         Agreed.Gravemind 3/20/12 3:14 p.m.
                                               Re: Agreed.Apirishin 3/20/12 3:45 p.m.
                                                     What if Invasion didn't mean taking turns?SonGoharotto 3/20/12 4:23 p.m.
                                                           Re: What if Invasion didn't mean taking turns?Apirishin 3/20/12 4:27 p.m.
                                                                 ^ This *NM*SonGoharotto 3/20/12 4:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Invasion is awesome. (LONG)RC Master 3/21/12 12:15 a.m.
                                   Changing The NarrativeSonGoharotto 3/20/12 3:41 p.m.
     Part 4 - Broken, but can it still be fun?RC Master 3/20/12 8:58 p.m.
     Part 5 - Invasion & RushRC Master 3/20/12 11:37 p.m.
     Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/21/12 3:32 a.m.
           Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 8:19 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?Sqorck 3/21/12 8:58 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?Revenant1988 3/21/12 9:00 a.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 9:18 a.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?Revenant1988 3/21/12 9:36 a.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?CaneCutter 3/21/12 10:18 a.m.
                 Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/21/12 1:31 p.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Louis Wu 3/21/12 1:52 p.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?Miguel Chavez 3/22/12 12:05 a.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?DEEP NNN 3/22/12 6:37 a.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/22/12 12:55 p.m.
                       Re: Hey Wu...?Hoovaloov 3/21/12 5:31 p.m.
                             Re: Hey Wu...?RC Master 3/22/12 2:34 p.m.
                                   Re: Hey Wu...?Hoovaloov 3/22/12 7:26 p.m.
     Part 6 - 3-Plot TerritoriesRC Master 3/22/12 10:45 a.m.
           Re: Part 6 - 3-Plot TerritoriesZaneZavin 3/22/12 4:25 p.m.
           Re: Part 6 - 3-Plot Territoriesnillapuddin 3/22/12 7:37 p.m.
     Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/23/12 8:51 a.m.
           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 11:34 a.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/23/12 12:23 p.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 12:32 p.m.
                             Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/23/12 12:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/23/12 12:53 p.m.
                                   Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 1:52 p.m.
                                         Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/24/12 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/24/12 7:08 p.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/24/12 7:21 p.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/24/12 7:56 p.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:52 a.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:48 a.m.
                                               Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/25/12 4:40 a.m.
                                                     Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/25/12 10:59 a.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeZaneZavin 3/25/12 11:51 a.m.
                                                           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/26/12 5:28 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypepete_the_duck 3/26/12 7:32 p.m.
                                                                       Pete, you have a dealRC Master 4/4/12 2:10 p.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 1:43 p.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 9:48 a.m.
                       Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeRC Master 3/24/12 12:48 p.m.
                             Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/26/12 12:50 a.m.
           Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeHoovaloov 3/26/12 1:51 a.m.
                 Re: Part 7 - Invasion Control gametypeChrisTheeCrappy 3/26/12 8:46 a.m.
     Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedRC Master 3/25/12 6:10 p.m.
           Re: Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedHoovaloov 3/26/12 2:24 a.m.
                 Re: Part 8 - Slayer and Flag evolvedRC Master 3/26/12 4:50 a.m.
     Part 9 - A different way to AssaultRC Master 4/4/12 2:32 p.m.
     Part 10 & 11 - Weird versions of Oddball, King etcRC Master 4/10/12 1:51 p.m.
           :'( no reactions at all?RC Master 4/11/12 3:06 p.m.
                 I only just caught upSonGoharotto 4/11/12 9:40 p.m.
                       Re: I only just caught upRC Master 4/12/12 9:21 a.m.
                             Re: I only just caught upSonGoharotto 4/12/12 8:08 p.m.
           Re: Part 10 & 11 - Weird versions of Oddball, Kingstabbim 4/12/12 3:32 p.m.



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