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Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*
Posted By: scarabDate: 11/21/09 9:50 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP* (Bry)


: Cosmetic only, not really important.

Exactly! We are watching painted humans and not aliens.

: Will they? Evolution itself promises eventual convergence.

No it doesn't.

: There is no
: guarentee things would be fundamentally different just because its a
: different planet. In theory, there should only be evolutionary differences
: if there is reason for it. Such as different gravity or atmosphere.

No, we know that evolutionary trajectories are contingent, that outcomes are shaped by random events and are based on what came before. Richard Llenski has demonstrated this with his E. coli experiments.

We don't know for a fact that the first bauplans were not inevitable, there may be unknown constraints that make them inevitable but even if they were that does not mean that something like a human is inevitable.

: Culture wise, depends. Given all the varieties in culture out there.
: Like I said, I don't like the idea of making something alien just for the
: sake of it.

They ARE aliens so want them to be alien isn't a gratuitous request.

: So I have no issue with 'aliens' having what some refer to as
: a 'human' culture. In the end, when you strip away the qualities we
: consider human, you aren't left with an alien, you're left with an animal.

Not at all.

Are Pierson's Puppeteers just animals? Kzin? the Axons? Moya and Pilot? Daleks? The Flood? The Horta?

Take the Horta as an example. This was a race that gave birth to millions of eggs and then all adults but one died. One adult lived on the guard the eggs. The Horta were silicon blobs that ate through rock using super strong acids. Their wounds could be bandaged with quick drying concrete.

Yet the Horta was a sympathetic character. The episode was titled The Devil in the Dark. But it was the humans that were the devils from the Horta's perspective.

Yet it all ended happily, the humans changed their ways once they understood the Horta, her biology and her needs.

I think that is an excellent example of how an alien's alien biology can make an excellent story.

: An Alien, in the form of Extraterrestrial life, doesn't have to be
: significantly different in all ways.
: Doing so for no real reason is, in my view, no better than 'humanising' them.

She was far too close. Elites have never looked like mammals, now we know that they are mammals. Not good.

Going back to Elites:

I often wondered how their jaws worked. It looks like the answer is: not well. But that was before I came across Moray Eels and their pharyngeal jaws. I now think that the visible mandibles are part of an atrophied capture apparatus and that there are pharyngeal teeth inside the 'throat' that do the chewing.

Anyway, some time ago I speculated that their jaws were adapted for latching onto larger animals for feeding on their blood.

I was thinking that the Elites would be like the Masai, they would be warriors that tended cattle. they would eat the meat of the cattle and drink their blood.

The Elites young would be born small with only their jaws properly developed and they would be attached to the necks of the, rather large cattle. In time their young would develop limbs and could detach themselves and adopt a mobile lifestyle.

The Elites would depend entirely on the cattle for their livelihoods. They would own them and guard them from predators and other Elites. They would be husbanders and warriors.

This wouldn't just be a cultural think. It would be part of their basic nature.

I also wondered why the Elites accepted the more subservient role to the Prophets. From CH it seems that the Elites were even more religiously conservative and devout than the Prophets. Why would the Elites assume the role of guards so easily?

I thought, 'If its in their nature to be husbanders and protectors then assuming that role in the Covenant would come naturally to them. They may accept the role even without thinking much about it.' The Prophets look like herbivores to me (its the teeth). They look like cattle or something weak that need protection.

If the Elites saw their role as being the protectors then it would be even more of a blow to be stripped of that status, more of a blow than simply losing a position of power. The loss would strike at their innate self image, how they fundamentally saw themselves.

If they saw themselves as protectors then that may shape future relations with the former members of the Covenant. There is a mixture of protection/service and ownership with their protection. Their protective role isn't seen by them as a subservient role. and you have the selfless aspect of service which is a form of honor that appeals to me.

I liked the idea that the members of the Covenant saw each other as brothers. They looked beyond the skin. That is one think about the Covenant that was good. It would be nice to see something like that preserved.

If the Elites saw their honor as being more about selfless service and less about personal importance then I would like them more and would see a more optimistic outlook for the Halo civilizations post Halo 3.

And Elite biology good be the key to this.

: Actually, I was referring to all the female characters, but especially to
: Miranda Keyes and to a lesser extent Dare.
: They tried too hard to make them strong women and it shows.
: Best female character in the Halo universe? I'd say First Lieutenant Melissa
: McKay.

I like my women to have spunk but not balls. :-)

Message Index



Replies:

[Halo Waypoint] The Duel is onlineCaLL Me ZeNy 11/20/09 5:40 p.m.
     Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is onlineLouis Wu 11/20/09 6:56 p.m.
           Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is onlineT51b 11/20/09 7:00 p.m.
                 I think...TDSpiral 11/21/09 2:27 a.m.
     Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online2900d4u 11/20/09 6:57 p.m.
     Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is onlineDani 11/20/09 6:58 p.m.
     Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Zeouterlimits 11/20/09 7:14 p.m.
           Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Frankie 11/20/09 7:44 p.m.
                 Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Bry 11/21/09 3:10 a.m.
                       Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*reprobate 11/21/09 3:56 a.m.
                 Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Cody Moore 11/21/09 3:57 a.m.
                       Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*scarab 11/21/09 5:25 a.m.
                             Outstanding read... *NM*GrimBrother One 11/21/09 2:28 p.m.
                             Wow. This should be on the HSP *NM*Rosco-128 11/21/09 5:17 p.m.
           Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Hedgemony 11/20/09 7:45 p.m.
                 Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*FireDragon04 11/20/09 7:57 p.m.
                       Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Fil Storamee 11/22/09 2:11 p.m.
                             Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is online *SPOILERS*Vincent 11/22/09 2:16 p.m.
     My Thoughts *SPOILERS*newguy2445 11/20/09 8:19 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*Frankie 11/20/09 8:26 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*newguy2445 11/20/09 11:05 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*Quirel 11/23/09 12:47 a.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 11/23/09 11:16 a.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*Quirel 11/23/09 3:44 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*Quirel 11/23/09 3:48 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts *SPOILERS*SPU7N1K 11/21/09 1:49 a.m.
     Isn't up yet. :(Gravemind 11/20/09 11:41 p.m.
           Re: Isn't up yet. :(Frankie 11/20/09 11:47 p.m.
                 Re: Isn't up yet. :(Gravemind 11/21/09 12:03 a.m.
                       Re: Isn't up yet. :(newguy2445 11/21/09 12:11 a.m.
                             Re: Isn't up yet. :(Frankie 11/21/09 12:33 a.m.
                                   Re: 4 8 15 16 23 42Hedgemony 11/21/09 12:37 a.m.
                                         How's Reach? *NM*Chris101b 11/21/09 12:47 a.m.
                                               Re: How's Reach?newguy2445 11/21/09 1:06 a.m.
                                                     Re: How's Reach?Chris101b 11/21/09 1:17 a.m.
                                                           Re: How's Reach?newguy2445 11/21/09 1:28 a.m.
                                                                 Re: How's Reach?Chris101b 11/21/09 1:41 a.m.
                                                                       Re: How's Reach?SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 1:20 p.m.
                                                                             ZOMG, LOL!!!! *NM* *NM*AngelicLionheart 11/21/09 1:23 p.m.
                                                                             Winter 2012... No official date yet *NM*Chris101b 11/21/09 7:27 p.m.
           Re: Isn't up yet. :(Chris101b 11/21/09 2:14 a.m.
     My thoughts [mad spoilz]Vincent 11/21/09 2:37 a.m.
           Re: My thoughts [mad spoilz]Chris101b 11/21/09 2:46 a.m.
     Impressions *SP*scarab 11/21/09 3:17 a.m.
     To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*AngelicLionheart 11/21/09 3:18 a.m.
           Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*Vincent 11/21/09 3:28 a.m.
           Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*scarab 11/21/09 3:30 a.m.
                 Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*AngelicLionheart 11/21/09 3:42 a.m.
                       PS... *also Das Spoilers, Ja Ja*AngelicLionheart 11/21/09 3:45 a.m.
                       Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*scarab 11/21/09 4:09 a.m.
                             Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*AngelicLionheart 11/21/09 12:42 p.m.
           Re: To Frankie, from me: *Das Spoilerz, Ja*Bry 11/21/09 4:57 a.m.
     That female Elite looks like a Na'avi. *NM*BlueNinja 11/21/09 4:46 a.m.
     Wow. Just wow. *SP*Avateur 11/21/09 5:13 a.m.
           Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*scarab 11/21/09 5:51 a.m.
                 Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*Bry 11/21/09 6:56 a.m.
                       Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*scarab 11/21/09 7:15 a.m.
                             Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*Bry 11/21/09 7:28 a.m.
                                   Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*scarab 11/21/09 9:50 a.m.
                                         Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*General Vagueness 11/21/09 10:17 p.m.
                 Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*General Vagueness 11/21/09 9:49 p.m.
           Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*pete_the_duck 11/21/09 8:54 a.m.
                 Re: Wow. Just wow. *SP*Avateur 11/21/09 1:12 p.m.
                       Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 2:02 p.m.
                             Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/21/09 2:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 2:27 p.m.
                                         Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/21/09 2:48 p.m.
                                               Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Fil Storamee 11/22/09 1:51 p.m.
                                                     Whoa. That'd be some major ouchies.AngelicLionheart 11/22/09 2:00 p.m.
                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 2:31 p.m.
                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Azo 'Galvat 11/22/09 10:50 p.m.
                                               Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 2:32 p.m.
                                                     fan fics *NM*rolandk73 11/22/09 2:33 p.m.
                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Vincent 11/22/09 2:34 p.m.
                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/22/09 2:37 p.m.
                                                           Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 3:01 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.UNSC_Trooper 11/22/09 3:04 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/22/09 3:13 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Eaite Randjam 11/22/09 3:21 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 3:26 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 3:44 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/22/09 4:27 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Fil Storamee 11/22/09 5:25 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.markz------WebKitFormBoundary2DB+IQUWVoo3pTr4 11/22/09 5:34 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Bry 11/22/09 5:47 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Fil Storamee 11/22/09 5:58 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 6:06 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.Fil Storamee 11/22/09 6:38 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.SonofMacPhisto 11/22/09 7:21 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Boobs rock, and other matters.markz------WebKitFormBoundary2DB+IQUWVoo3pTr4 11/22/09 6:24 p.m.
                             The Duel, in a nutshellIccaRa 11/21/09 2:29 p.m.
                                   lol, nice. *NM* *NM*SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 2:56 p.m.
                                   Re: The Duel, in a nutshellGravemind 11/21/09 4:14 p.m.
                                         Will spartans do?Vincent 11/21/09 4:24 p.m.
           'There was honor in our Covenant once...'SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 1:11 p.m.
     I've seen a lot of things in my life...Metalingus627 11/21/09 7:31 a.m.
           This was better than the last one.Tighclops 11/21/09 5:08 p.m.
     OkayIccaRa 11/21/09 9:26 a.m.
           Re: OkayAzo 'Galvat 11/21/09 10:37 a.m.
                 Re: Okaygunluva 11/21/09 10:52 a.m.
                       Re: OkayAzo 'Galvat 11/21/09 11:25 a.m.
           Re: Okayscarab 11/21/09 10:46 a.m.
                 Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 10:58 a.m.
                 Re: OkayIccaRa 11/21/09 10:59 a.m.
           Re: OkayFrankie 11/21/09 11:14 a.m.
                 Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 11:26 a.m.
                       Re: Okay7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 11/21/09 11:39 a.m.
                             Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 11:46 a.m.
                                   Re: Okay7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 11/21/09 11:58 a.m.
                                   Re: OkayFrankie 11/21/09 12:05 p.m.
                                         Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 12:14 p.m.
                 Re: OkayAzo 'Galvat 11/21/09 11:27 a.m.
                 Re: OkayIccaRa 11/21/09 11:33 a.m.
                       Re: Okay addendumIccaRa 11/21/09 11:56 a.m.
                             Re: Okay addendumscarab 11/21/09 12:02 p.m.
                                   Re: Okay addendumIccaRa 11/21/09 12:35 p.m.
                                         Give in to the dark side *NM*scarab 11/21/09 1:14 p.m.
                                   Re: Okay addendumFrankie 11/21/09 12:35 p.m.
                                         Re: Okay addendumAzo 'Galvat 11/21/09 1:13 p.m.
                                         Re: Okay addendumZeouterlimits 11/21/09 5:26 p.m.
                                         Re: Okay addendumreprobate 11/22/09 1:50 a.m.
                 Re: Okayscarab 11/21/09 11:43 a.m.
                       Re: OkayIccaRa 11/21/09 11:48 a.m.
                             Re: Okayscarab 11/21/09 11:53 a.m.
                                   Re: OkayFrankie 11/21/09 11:59 a.m.
                                         Re: Okayscarab 11/21/09 12:10 p.m.
                                               Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 12:18 p.m.
                                               Re: OkayFrankie 11/21/09 12:26 p.m.
                                         Re: Okayscarab 11/21/09 3:26 p.m.
                                         Originsvlad89 11/23/09 6:15 a.m.
                                               Re: OriginsUNSC_Trooper 11/23/09 12:13 p.m.
                                   Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 12:10 p.m.
                                   Re: OkayIccaRa 11/21/09 12:22 p.m.
                                         or what Frankie said, lols. *NM* *NM*IccaRa 11/21/09 12:23 p.m.
           Re: OkaySonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 1:13 p.m.
                 Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 1:24 p.m.
                       Re: OkaySonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 2:57 p.m.
                             Re: OkayBry 11/21/09 3:02 p.m.
                                   Re: OkaySonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 3:05 p.m.
                 But think of the cooties *NM*IccaRa 11/21/09 1:41 p.m.
                       Re: But think of the cootiesSonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 3:10 p.m.
           Re: Okaymarkz------WebKitFormBoundary2DB+IQUWVoo3pTr4 11/22/09 4:32 a.m.
     HE'S A DEMON! *shank'd*gunluva 11/21/09 9:34 a.m.
           He is the demons!IccaRa 11/21/09 11:07 a.m.
                 Re: He is the demons!rolandk73 11/21/09 12:00 p.m.
                       Re: He is the demons!Metalingus627 11/21/09 12:38 p.m.
                             Re: He is the demons!Frankie 11/21/09 12:41 p.m.
                                   Re: He is the demons!IccaRa 11/21/09 12:45 p.m.
                                         Re: He is the demons!gunluva 11/21/09 12:58 p.m.
                                               Re: He is the demons!IccaRa 11/21/09 1:03 p.m.
                                               Re: He is the demons!SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 1:16 p.m.
                                         Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/21/09 3:53 p.m.
                                               Re: He is the demons!Frankie 11/21/09 4:59 p.m.
                                                     Re: He is the demons!SonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 5:20 p.m.
                                                     Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/21/09 10:07 p.m.
                                                           Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/22/09 2:34 a.m.
                                                                 Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/22/09 2:24 p.m.
                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Vincent 11/22/09 2:32 p.m.
                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/22/09 2:42 p.m.
                                                                             Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/22/09 5:22 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/22/09 5:26 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: He is the demons!rolandk73 11/22/09 5:28 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/22/09 5:43 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/22/09 6:26 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/22/09 10:20 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/23/09 3:28 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: He is the demons!SonofMacPhisto 11/23/09 9:41 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/23/09 10:11 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/23/09 11:19 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: He is the demons!General Vagueness 11/23/09 11:58 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/23/09 1:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: He is the demons!General Vagueness 11/23/09 6:22 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: He is the demons!Document 11/24/09 3:32 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/24/09 4:21 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: He is the demons!Document 11/24/09 4:47 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/24/09 5:17 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: He is the demons!Document 11/24/09 5:26 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/24/09 5:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/24/09 8:29 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/24/09 8:37 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/24/09 8:16 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/25/09 2:19 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/25/09 6:19 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/25/09 7:15 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: He is the demons!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/25/09 8:22 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: He is the demons!Bry 11/25/09 8:56 a.m.
                                                                                         No! Bad Document!Riceatron 11/24/09 5:27 p.m.
                                                                                               AlsoRiceatron 11/24/09 5:28 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: No! Bad Document!Bry 11/24/09 5:39 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: No! Bad Document!Mercury 11/24/09 5:45 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: No! Bad Document!Bry 11/24/09 5:53 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: No! Bad Document!SonofMacPhisto 11/24/09 5:54 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: No! Bad Document!Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/24/09 8:20 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: No! Bad Document!Document 11/24/09 7:39 p.m.
                                   Re: He is the demons!Avateur 11/21/09 1:18 p.m.
           Re: HE'S A DEMON! *shank'd*Zeouterlimits 11/21/09 11:43 a.m.
           "Men of Sanghelios"bluerunner 11/21/09 4:04 p.m.
                 Re: "Men of Sanghelios"Vincent 11/21/09 4:10 p.m.
                       Re: "Men of Sanghelios"Frankie 11/21/09 4:58 p.m.
                             Re: "Men of Sanghelios"Bry 11/21/09 5:10 p.m.
                                   Re: "Men of Sanghelios"Eaite Randjam 11/22/09 9:52 a.m.
                                         Re: "Men of Sanghelios"Fil Storamee 11/22/09 1:53 p.m.
     I loved this, thoroughly *SP, of course*serpx 11/21/09 4:03 p.m.
     Watched it. Loved it.Gravemind 11/21/09 5:51 p.m.
     Fal's MovementsSonofMacPhisto 11/21/09 6:35 p.m.
           Re: Fal's MovementsBry 11/21/09 6:40 p.m.
           Fal was greatrolandk73 11/22/09 5:09 p.m.
     The Duel vs. Halo 2Tex 11/22/09 10:42 a.m.
           Re: The Duel vs. Halo 2rolandk73 11/22/09 5:26 p.m.
     EUREKA I have found itrolandk73 11/22/09 2:44 p.m.
           Re: EUREKA I have found itVincent 11/22/09 2:50 p.m.
                 Re: EUREKA I have found itrolandk73 11/22/09 3:03 p.m.
           Re: EUREKA I have found it, fools gold!Hedgemony 11/22/09 6:13 p.m.
           Re: EUREKA I have found itLeisandir 11/22/09 8:52 p.m.
     Re: [Halo Waypoint] The Duel is onlineT07WRX5 11/23/09 8:26 a.m.



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