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Re: Is a rose by any other name...
Posted By: Wado SG	Date: 12/8/05 9:18 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Is a rose by any other name... (Pak) : You're saying that there are people out there that don't have an ounce of : creativity in them? That there are people that can say, do, think, or make : nothing of any originality whatsoever? By all means that appears an : outrageous claim. There are people that are creatively challenged, yes. It isn't that they have no creativity, it is that they have to work much, much harder to do creative things than others that creativity comes more natural to. : So true artists are creative ALL the time? They never stop to have a life as : normal as yours or mine? Everything they do is majestically creative in : some godly way? I should say your generalities suit the word apalling. I don't know where you get your line of reasoning from. I've said that creativity comes from certain parts of the brain. Bio-chemical, neuralogical, whatever you call it, some people are born with it more than some others. Yes you can train your brain to be more creative, but just like logic, I can train myself to be better at logic, but I still won't be the smartest person on earth unless I have that potential in the first place. People really inclined to think logically have that as part of their lives. People really inclined to think creatively have that as part of their lives. This has nothing to do with whether they live normal or abnormal lifestyles, it is part of the way their minds work, part of who they are. : But is the art of the cookie cutter not reiterated with every use? Is not : anyone who would so use the cutter then an artist? Can simplicity not be : art as much as complexity, and so originality as much as conformity? I agree with you here... I don't know why you don't think I agree. It isn't that art is orginal it is that is has originality. Ever read a really good poem and think of it as a work of art. Then have a contest where everyone writes a poem independently of each other based on the same theme as the original poem. When it turns out that hundreds of people write poems so close to the original, it is really hard to consider it really a winner, no matter how good it is. The reason is that everything starts to look the same after a while, those things that are different will really stand out. For all practical purposes, whether you call something art or not does not matter, the work that wins the art contest will be the work that stands out among the others without breaking the rules. People understand that there are multiple definitions of what art is. There is something subjectively called art. Then there are things called art for practical, real world reasons. Yes that is subjective too, but it much more of a formal process. The debate wasn't whether a video game is art or not. The debate was whether a video game could qualify as art given a formal process. There was a pretty much total agreement on this forum that video games are not art when put through a formal process of decision making. Who knows in the future, however. : Are not all responses, save perhaps imitation, learned responses? Have we not : in some way learned to how or when to reiterate these responses? Immitation is a learned response. The basic definition of art is immitation, particularly immitation of nature. Whether something is a learned response or not does not have much to do with whether it is considered art or not. Don't know the relevance of your line of thought on this subject. : As well as those seemingly without messages. If in one such case antonyms can : share a common artistic quality, cannot all opposites? Is this philosophy? All things can be said to be both related and different. Yin and Yang are said to be opposites, but Yin has a circle of Yang in it, Yang has a circle of Yin in it. This is used to illustrate that even opposites are related. : If art is subjective then even those definitions that would be produced out : of social responsibility are subjective definitions applicable only to : said social body. Thus, art remains everything as a whole. Art is not everything. Art is particular to that which is the creation of the creative parts of the brain in my definition. IMO, you are dwelling too much on art being subjective. It is understood that art is subjective, the debate was about practical applications of art. What is considered art for practical purposes. : Exactly, their opinions are not in some essential fashion subverted by : another body's opinion. Art remains subjective. : Not only by committee, but by individuals as well. Any social group can form : an opinion potentially contradictory, and so art is yet subjective. Known, given, broken record...lol : But do these social interpretations, which are subject to innumerable : exceptions and conditions alter what is at heart art? Are these social : definitions not simply subjective and specific? : And in said case, the definition is the opinion of those giving the money. It : is still a subjective definition, and so does not truely define art : outside of their opinion. : So is the case with everything. well said : Conformity in action is conformity in thought, for our actions cannot be : committed unaffected of our thoughts. Equally, our thoughts cannot be : committed unaffected of our actions. Right words, wrong message. The whole "conformity in action is conformity in thought" is a tool, not a fact. If I have a team, to get them to work together they must have common goals. They must have conformity in thought as so much as determination towards a common goal and in agreement to work together to the better of all. The last thing I want is for all the team members to think exactly alike. Each one contributes their piece and area of expertise, a sort of checks and balances. Where one team member misses something, another can see it, so as a team, everything works out better. Each plays a critical role in the dynamics of the situation. In this manner, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. But I digress.

Message Index

Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Game	Brian Graham	12/7/05 4:12 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Ducain	12/7/05 4:27 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Narcogen	12/7/05 9:47 p.m.
I do wonder...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 4:29 p.m.
Re: I do wonder...	Brian Graham	12/7/05 4:57 p.m.
Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 5:03 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Roger Wilco	12/7/05 5:58 p.m.
metacriticism	Narcogen	12/7/05 9:51 p.m.
Re: metacriticism	Roger Wilco	12/7/05 11:23 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:25 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 9:28 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	zugy	12/7/05 9:36 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:42 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Narcogen	12/7/05 9:56 p.m.
Re: Reprinted from my Rampancy.net posts:	Pak	12/7/05 10:09 p.m.
Comment repiles	Narcogen	12/7/05 9:49 p.m.
Re: Comment repiles	Brian Graham	12/7/05 10:09 p.m.
I disagree	Echoes	12/7/05 4:34 p.m.
Re: I disagree	Sep7imus [subnova]	12/7/05 4:56 p.m.
Art...Video Games...Murder	Pallor [subnova]	12/7/05 5:53 p.m.
Welcome back. *NM*	c0ld vengeance	12/7/05 6:38 p.m.
Re: Art...Video Games...Murder	Sep7imus [subnova]	12/7/05 6:47 p.m.
Re: Art...Video Games...Murder	mad.max [subnova]	12/7/05 6:57 p.m.
Speeding It Up	Pallor [subnova]	12/7/05 7:14 p.m.
Craftsmanship	mad.max [subnova]	12/7/05 6:43 p.m.
Expression.	Peptuck	12/7/05 7:05 p.m.
Re: Expression.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:20 p.m.
Re: Expression.	Peptuck	12/7/05 9:44 p.m.
Re: Expression.	Louis Wu	12/8/05 9:00 a.m.
Re: Expression.	Malleus	12/8/05 11:27 a.m.
Now that you've defined art and craft so well	char	12/7/05 7:10 p.m.
Re: Now that you've defined art and craft so well	Peptuck	12/7/05 7:16 p.m.
Re: Craftsmanship	Pak	12/7/05 7:42 p.m.
My Creation.	Pallor [subnova]	12/7/05 7:53 p.m.
Re: My Creation.	Pak	12/7/05 8:52 p.m.
Re: My Creation.	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 9:15 p.m.
Hanging on my "Wall" IMG	Pak	12/7/05 9:25 p.m.
Re: My Creation.	Peptuck	12/8/05 12:21 a.m.
Re: My Creation.	Peptuck	12/7/05 11:42 p.m.
Craft, Art, Low Art, High Art, Pop Art, PopTart	Narcogen	12/7/05 10:09 p.m.
Re: Craftsmanship	Wado SG	12/8/05 2:29 a.m.
Re: Craftsmanship	Pak	12/8/05 3:52 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	char	12/7/05 6:56 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Whisp	12/7/05 7:03 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Pak	12/7/05 7:08 p.m.
I also disagree.	Shishka	12/7/05 7:33 p.m.
Er, with Mr Graham, not Narc. *NM*	Shishka	12/7/05 7:49 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:10 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 8:26 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:35 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 8:46 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:57 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 9:08 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Louis Wu	12/7/05 9:14 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:30 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 9:40 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 9:44 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:50 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 9:54 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:58 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 10:07 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Brian Graham	12/7/05 10:11 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 10:13 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	12/7/05 10:15 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Pak	12/7/05 10:28 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Narcogen	12/7/05 10:32 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	jman571	12/7/05 8:46 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Shishka	12/7/05 9:54 p.m.
Re: I also disagree.	Narcogen	12/7/05 10:22 p.m.
Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 8:28 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 8:30 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Brian Graham	12/7/05 8:42 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Pak	12/7/05 8:50 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:36 p.m.
art is like the gum at the bottom of my shoe *NM*	jman571	12/7/05 8:51 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 8:53 p.m.
the ART of War, maybe? *NM*	jman571	12/7/05 9:07 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Brian Graham	12/7/05 9:14 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Pak	12/7/05 9:40 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 9:59 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Brian Graham	12/7/05 10:19 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Pak	12/7/05 10:30 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 10:37 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 10:36 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Pak	12/7/05 10:27 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/7/05 11:07 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Pak	12/8/05 2:24 p.m.
Re: Is a rose by any other name...	Wado SG	12/8/05 9:18 p.m.
The problem with art...	zugy	12/7/05 9:30 p.m.
Re: The problem with art...	Peptuck	12/7/05 9:46 p.m.
Isin't it ironic....	jman571	12/7/05 10:14 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Brian Graham	12/7/05 10:22 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Sep7imus [subnova]	12/7/05 10:30 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Wado SG	12/8/05 1:59 a.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Pak	12/7/05 10:31 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Sep7imus [subnova]	12/7/05 10:30 p.m.
Re: Rebuttal to Narcogen's Article on Story and Ga	Tiny	12/7/05 11:55 p.m.