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Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands Alone
Posted By: YossarianDate: 6/18/02 1:39 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands Alone (Agent Cletus)

: But the problem is the science doesn't stand alone, because Humans are
: entirely subjective creatures. We mix "science", which can only
: truly be performed by an objective creature, with our own opinions.

You can't really claim this without admitting you do the same with the idea of "God". I personally don't beleive in god, I beleive that there is a god for every person that believes in him. Individuals create God in THEIR own mental images and put their opinions/desires/thoughts into that entity thus making it a part of themselves much as you claim people do with science.

: Take
: biological science, for example. There are two main camps in America, the
: Evolutionists and the Creationists. Both use "scientific"
: methods to research the same evidence, yet come up with different, though
: not diametrically opposite, conclusions.

I won't debate that both "sides" use science, because as the reasearchers are concerned their methods are scientific. The difference is in how the science is USED. The theory of evolution is incomplete and can change at any time; but with every change it become a more and more dynamic and plausible model. "Evolutionary" scientists use research to update and streamline their model(Theory of Evolution). "Creationists" cannot alter their model (Bible or other holy book) and must therefore make the research conform to the model, effectively making science religion's little bitch.

It's like the U.S. Constitution; amend (revise) the document (theory) to conform with a changing society (research) like evolutionary theory does, or bend the populace (research) regardless of the consequences in order to appease an archaic doctrine (creationist literature, i.e., bible.).

The point is not whether
: evolution or creation is the moving force of life: the point is that each
: camp bitterly denouces the other *for reasons of ideology* (!!!)

No, I tend to think its simple "fact". Evolutionary scientists are saying "this is what the research has found" while Creationsits simply puth their hands over their ears, cover their eyes and scream "DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT!!"

: So
: science doesn't stand alone. It sits as one of the many tools of the Self.

Like Faith, Reason, and God.

: And self is the only thing that stands alone.

Then God, like Science, cannot be pure. Science is nothing more than a human word that embodies the whole of the natural world we seem to exist in. Technology, the practical application of science, has been used uncounted times in ways that could be considered evil and selfish, but blaming science for the atomic bomb is like blaming Hitler's typewriter for Mein Kamph.

: Also look at research and development. Admitedly, many scientifc discoveries
: were made by accident. But they really didn't "just happen."
: Someone decided, for reasons of his self-fulfillment, to be a researcher.
: If he stumbled upon a great thing, like X-rays, he furthered the research
: and benefited humanity.

I guess(?) what you're trying to say here is that said discoverer was researching more for personal(spiritual?) fullfillment than for scientific advancement? Just because someone is personally motivated to do or prove something doesn't necessarilly make the conclusion wrong. It's having the wisdom to admit that your original hypothesis is incorrect; something that a Believer in Creationsim doesn't think he can afford to do That's the beauty of science: we can admit our mistakes and learn from them, and even learn our original reasons for our iniital hypothesis.

: However, how many people *could* have made the
: discovery, and didn't, because they didn't care to live the lifestyle that
: would lead to discovery???

Could you maybe give some examples?

: Maybe that bit completely screws up the Rubicon level! =) I hope not: enjoy
: the game, enjoy your life.

: Cletus

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/17/02 5:14 p.m.
     Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/17/02 8:19 p.m.
           Great references - thanks *NM*Steve Levinson 6/17/02 10:06 p.m.
     Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneAgent Cletus 6/18/02 9:56 a.m.
           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneBen A. Potter 6/18/02 12:09 p.m.
                 LOL, U prove my point. Cletus.Agent Cletus 6/18/02 12:34 p.m.
                       Re: LOL, U prove my point. Cletus.Steve Levinson 6/18/02 12:58 p.m.
                       So totally wrong . . .MakeMineRed 6/18/02 1:02 p.m.
                       again...Ben A. Potter 6/19/02 1:18 p.m.
                 I couldn't have said it better myselfSteve Levinson 6/18/02 12:40 p.m.
           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneMakeMineRed 6/18/02 12:39 p.m.
           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/18/02 1:39 p.m.
                 Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/18/02 2:34 p.m.
                       Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/18/02 4:06 p.m.
                             Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/18/02 7:11 p.m.
                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/18/02 7:20 p.m.
                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneMazilurik 6/18/02 8:09 p.m.
                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneAgent Cletus 6/19/02 6:29 a.m.
                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/19/02 7:48 a.m.
                                         Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/19/02 11:59 a.m.
                                               Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/19/02 1:58 p.m.
                                                     Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/19/02 6:35 p.m.
                                                           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/19/02 7:26 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/20/02 9:15 a.m.
                                                           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneYossarian 6/19/02 8:08 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneInverted Sock Puppet 6/20/02 12:34 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/20/02 7:30 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/20/02 9:13 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/20/02 9:35 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/20/02 9:22 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneInverted Sock Puppet 6/21/02 12:56 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneTru7h 6/21/02 7:14 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneInverted Sock Puppet 6/22/02 1:50 a.m.
                                                                                         Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/22/02 9:23 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Ouch!:: Beer Can :: 6/22/02 12:45 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Ouch!Tru7h 6/22/02 1:59 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Ouch!:: Beer Can :: 6/22/02 5:36 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/22/02 7:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Ouch!Mazilurik 6/22/02 9:13 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/22/02 9:16 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Ouch!Tru7h 6/23/02 7:18 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/23/02 8:26 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/24/02 12:37 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: Ouch!:: Beer Can :: 6/24/02 1:22 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               8^D *NM*Steve Levinson 6/24/02 7:38 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               LOL *NM*Tru7h 6/25/02 7:35 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/24/02 8:01 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/25/02 12:52 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Ouch!Tru7h 6/25/02 7:48 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/25/02 8:56 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/26/02 1:16 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Ouch!:: Beer Can :: 6/26/02 2:00 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/26/02 8:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Ouch!:: Beer Can :: 6/26/02 11:53 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/27/02 12:39 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/27/02 7:51 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/28/02 5:54 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Ouch!Steve Levinson 6/28/02 7:32 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Ouch!Inverted Sock Puppet 6/30/02 5:11 a.m.
           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneC Lund 6/18/02 2:54 p.m.
           Perceptions of ScienceSteve Levinson 6/18/02 3:13 p.m.
                 My badAgent Cletus 6/18/02 3:45 p.m.
                       Re: My badSteve Levinson 6/18/02 3:59 p.m.
                             Re: My badAgent Cletus 6/18/02 5:13 p.m.
                                   Re: My badMazilurik 6/18/02 6:47 p.m.
                                   Re: My badTru7h 6/18/02 7:16 p.m.
                                         Re: My badYossarian 6/18/02 7:32 p.m.
                                               Re: My badInverted Sock Puppet 6/19/02 12:50 a.m.
                                               Re: My badSteve Levinson 6/19/02 7:50 a.m.
     Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/29/02 8:04 p.m.
           Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneInverted Sock Puppet 6/30/02 4:35 a.m.
                 Re: Rubicon Volunteers - Science Stands AloneSteve Levinson 6/30/02 2:58 p.m.
                       *Slight spoiler*Inverted Sock Puppet 6/30/02 4:48 p.m.
                             Re: *Slight spoiler*Steve Levinson 6/30/02 6:24 p.m.
                                   Re: *Slight spoiler*Inverted Sock Puppet 6/30/02 7:40 p.m.



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