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Re: Oh please, no.
Posted By: psychophan7Date: 11/15/09 5:36 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Oh please, no. (scarab)


: People can recognize the different, named, weapons and talk about them in
: meaningful ways, as weapons, not as game type variants.

If there is anything that I learned in these kinds of threads from the last week, it's that we can't make generalizations like this. It's not allowed or something. Something like, "just because [we] can identify different weapons easy, doesn't mean everyone can do that."

: I was also thinking that there could be multiple variants of a weapon on the
: map/level, then you need to be able to distinguish one from another.

That would just needlessly overcomplicate things. Weapons need to be quickly identifiable when they are on the ground and in another player's hands. Having multiple weapon variants existing in the same level/sandbox/buzzword means having to recognize subtle changes in a fast-paced game. That will not blow over well.

: HUD?

There's enough clutter on the HUD as it is.

: Settings could be listed where you download the game. You could filter games
: based on settings. Either the authors specify what their game has or
: Bungie/MS can parse their uploaded files and present the info.

A better user content browser? I see this as being wishful thinking, as I wouldn't associate useful file browsers with MS or Bungie.

: I was thinking that the default status of maps supplied by Bungie would be to
: have no health packs. Therefore you would have to add them and since you
: have to add them to use them then it would save time to just set the
: health status depending on presence or absence of HPs.

: But Bungie could make 2 versions of each starter map: one with HPs already
: positioned where they want them and one without. I just thought that if
: you were making a custom map then you would also want to say where the HPs
: go, so you may not care for Bungie's idea of good HP positioning.

Again, thats just excessive. Why have two map layouts when one will do? Put health packs down in Forge, turn on their usage with custom gametype option. Then, when the PLAYER decides they want to play with health packs, they can turn health packs on instead of having to go searching for a map that supports them.

: That boat sailed when h2 came out. Halo 3 and ODST have added even more
: weapons. Bungie already limits the available weapons on each map, they
: don't put every weapon that ever existed in every map.

I think you misunderstand. 10 weapons (or more) with 2 (or more) variants means that the effective amount of weapons goes up. Would it not be easier to balance 1 pistol against 1 rifle instead of having to balance 3 pistols against both themselves and against 4 rifles? It's excessive to even have that many weapons. As an aside, there needs to be some serious homogenization in the weapons department; Cull the redundancies (sniper rifle and beam rifle come to mind as being redundant), and make UNSC/Covenant weapon counterparts (like the Carbine to the BR) more diverse (or cull them as being redundant).

: So it doesn't matter how many weapons exist, they can pick the subsets they
: like and users can add their favorites if Bungie hasn't.

Just because Bungie won't put every weapon ever on every map doesn't mean that players won't put every weapon on every map.

: People have become used to changes in weapons between games. Old weapons
: become different and entirely new ones are added.

Generalization!

Yes, everyone has to adapt between games. They should not have to adapt between multiplayer and campaign in the same game.

: If Bungie has a large pool of weapons then they can select a subset that they
: think is good for each map and campaign level.

They already do that. You know what one of the top complaints about Forge is? That players can't put whatever weapon/vehicle that they want down in Forge. It's fine for Bungie to restrict designed encounters to use what weapons they want you to use, but it's not fine to restrict players from designing their own encounters in multiplayer.

: Players adapt to the map. If they really want to play with weapon X on a map
: and if Bungie hasn't supplied it then they add it in Forge and campaign to
: get it included in an official map at a later date.

No, because weapon X might not be part of the map's file. Then what? They can't be patched in easily, or else we would have guass hogs on Valhalla by now.

: The N00b combo could be done anywhere at any time. That made it overpowered.

No, the BR/PP combo wasn't overpowered, in the same regard anyways. It doesn't change the rules of the game. Overcharging someone and then following up with a headshot doesn't suddenly make you invincible and give you the ability to fly. Having one weapon be able to suddenly turn off a core game mechanic would be overpowered.

: Its also up to the jumper to look (for campers) before he leaps.

That's asking too much from people. Also, generalizations. Remember, they're not allowed because people with brains are in the minority.

: I don't know if I mentioned it but I was thinking that falling used proper
: acceleration. There is no terminal velocity (or its very high). The A-G
: kicks in just before you hit the ground. It has a proximity effect.

: So you quickly reach a speed that is too fast to auto-target. A PP bolt wont
: track fast enough. You would have to lead the shot and time it just right,
: catch the target just before the A-G would have kicked in: splat!

: But you might be right, anyone could have a PP as his second weapon and do a
: quick switch to take down a foe who had just jumped.

: Play testing would show if it was a problem or not. How obvious is it when
: someone is about to jump? How long does it take to charge up the PP? Maybe
: the A-G is only stunned for a fraction of a second, it could recover just
: before a long jump finishes? I don't know. You would need to suck it and
: see.

This is so harebrained that I will acknowledge that I read it, but not dignify it with a proper response to say why it's so harebrained. It's almost like I just read something written by GV.


Message Index




Replies:

So you guys want specifics on game design eh...Hawaiian Pig 11/12/09 11:34 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..dizzy 11/12/09 11:53 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:02 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:19 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 12:44 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:11 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 1:31 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:45 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ForShadow 11/13/09 12:52 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 2:28 a.m.
     namedrop B| *NM*Cow 11/13/09 1:10 a.m.
           no me *NM*Eiii 11/13/09 2:13 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hunt3r 11/13/09 1:27 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 2:25 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 2:29 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:23 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 2:14 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:22 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:18 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 1:45 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:51 p.m.
                                   anything not on the bottom LEFT *NM*Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:52 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 2:02 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:17 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 10:36 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 10:51 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:06 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:20 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:37 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:56 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:09 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:06 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/13/09 3:56 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 11:43 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:05 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:48 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/14/09 7:50 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 1:27 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/09 1:43 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 2:00 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 5:06 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 5:32 p.m.
                                                                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 6:11 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/14/09 1:07 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 10:47 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:01 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:28 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:28 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 10:00 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:50 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..RC Master 11/14/09 11:31 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:01 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:30 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/15/09 7:03 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/15/09 8:38 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 5:10 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..elessar787 11/16/09 12:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/16/09 2:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 5:14 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/16/09 8:12 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/16/09 10:24 p.m.
     Great url for the image *NM*Monochron 11/13/09 10:09 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 12:20 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:30 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:44 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:48 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:35 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 6:31 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 7:14 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 9:24 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 9:53 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 10:20 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 10:23 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 3:29 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 4:15 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 4:47 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hedgemony 11/13/09 6:24 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:31 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:12 a.m.
                       Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 3:48 a.m.
                             Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:20 a.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:48 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:16 p.m.
                                                     Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/15/09 5:36 p.m.
                                                           How's high school going psychophan7? *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 8:18 a.m.
                                                                 Re: How's high school going psychophan7?psychophan7 11/16/09 2:40 p.m.
                                                                       That's good to hear. *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 3:39 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 3:41 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.General Vagueness 11/14/09 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:21 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 7:18 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 9:59 p.m.



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