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| Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh.. | |
| Posted By: Hawaiian Pig | Date: 11/13/09 11:48 p.m. |
In Response To: Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh.. (Narcogen) : I think it is time to admit: Bungie is not making games for you, at least, : not games that cater to these specific elements which you want changed. : You are spitting into the wind. The point of my post was not to plead to Bungie. I don't think they listen very much to me or you. The idea was to try to demonstrate to you what I see in games. : Are either of you at least willing to admit the possibility that I am not
Please don't lump me in with him and his stupid approach to this. My posts so far have been an attempt to demonstrate to you that it is possible to make decisions that please the type of player that I am without breaking the bank for the rest of the audience. I feel that this ultimately leads to a richer, and longer lasting, game. : What am I holding a grudge about, exactly? My comment in IRC that GV alluded to, as I mentioned in another post, simply was referring to our constant back and forth nattering. Grudge? I don't think so. But I do think that when we each see the other post, we're compelled to deconstruct it. I expressed curiosity regarding how you might deconstruct my post. : You're honestly going to advance the opinion that our disagreement is somehow
I think he's referring to the subject of competitive play, which may very well be true. : I certainly don't think this thread has broken my calm but I suppose it might
We're still cool bro. : My fun is not your fun. It probably cannot be and most likely never will be.
I actually struggle to think of many studios that actually do this. The truth is, competitive games are harder to make and sell just as well or worse than casual/more accessible games. : Halo does not need to become like that. Deride it as a movie if you will. I
Halo does a fine job of toeing the line, and a rich narrative does not in any way interfere with greater complexity in gameplay. Gameplay and story (among other elements of video games) do not exist in a zero-sum relationship. : I do not understand your obsessive urge to suggest that Halo be turned into
GV is the farthest thing from a "hardcore" competitive gamer. I'm pretty certain his thoughts on games lie on your side of the fence. That being said, your contempt for design imperatives that derive from competitive play is confusing. I've been trying this entire time to clarify what it means to think competitively. I can't help but feel that not a single part of this thread has served to enhance your understanding of the ideas behind competitive play. I deliberately avoided terms like "flow" and "in the zone" and "deep gameplay" without trying to quantify them for you in a meaningful way. Ultimately it comes down to the idea of sufficient complexity (which can be found at the three elements of play I described, which can be tweaked by the two lower level concepts I outlined etc etc), and I'm not sure that got through to you. Others in the thread seem to, at the very least, understand the position. I am baffled as to how you can dismiss the idea that design imperatives derived from thinking in this way can benefit games. I thought I was making that clear. Maybe I'm not. I just don't see how implementing these things can detract from the game. I described in other posts how the dullness of ODST encounters could be alleviated by increasing the complexity involved in strategies available to the player for each encounter (something that the "Firefight Scenario" of the campaign does not lend itself well to). This dullness has been expressed by players from all ends of the casual/hardcore spectrum. Don't you think more well-thought-out encounters would benefit all more players... I tend to think most changes in this favour either benefit all players or are inconsequential to those who don't care. I can't think of any examples that specifically detract from players who derive satisfaction elsewhere. Perhaps you could do so?
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