In Response To: Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh.. (Louis Wu)
: This is actually completely dependent on map size.
: For a while, there were multiple playlists in which Avalanche showed up with
: AR starts. Better players SERIOUSLY donged on less-good players, because
: early encounters could easily be avoided - you just headed for a
: longer-range weapon if you were smart.
: The current Team Mythic list has two different Heretic slayer games: Team
: Slayer on Heretic (AR starts) and Team BRs on Heretic (BR starts). In
: BR-start games, there's quite a bit more long-range fighting - folks
: standing at the opening of their base, shooting across the middle at the
: other base, teams holding one side or the other and taking out challengers
: as they climb. In AR start games, there's FAR more running-around-the-map
: play - and even though there are two BRs on the map (one beneath each
: base), they get minimal use - because the folks who pick them up rarely
: have time to set up a longer-range defense (and because not EVERYONE on
: their team has one).
: Summary of my experience, based on these examples: AR starts on a large map:
: less-good players get donged-on
: BR starts on a large map: less-good players STILL get donged on, but less
: badly
: AR starts on a small map: less-good players have more of a chance
: BR starts on a small map: less-good players get donged-on
: One other note about your post: If you look at the skill distribution in a
: ranked playlist on LIVE (hit X at the main playlist window), you'll see
: that most of them look a lot like your Figure 3. The bell curve is skewed
: WAY down to the lower end of the spectrum. You'd think that means that
: there are plenty of casuals to play against, so that the matchmaking
: system would never pit you against people who were much better than you...
: but it's almost never true. The system uses in-playlist-levels only, not
: overall levels.
: So folks who work at getting a 50 (or a 45, or whatever) generally stick in a
: single playlist for a long time, in order to get that level - and then
: branch out. And when they branch out, they end up at really low levels in
: all other playlists, and dong on noobs a LOT.
: I used to think that this would be okay; that they'd blow past the early
: levels in a few games, and be out of my (and other casuals') hair in no
: time - but I see generals in almost every single game I play - and the
: frequency actually increases as time goes on. I don't think there's any
: way to fix this - I don't think there's any way to filter out the alt
: accounts, or complicate the pairing algorithm by taking overall skill into
: account - and in fact it will get worse and worse as the population
: shrinks. (That is: I don't blame Microsoft or Bungie for their 'lousy
: matchmaking system' - I think the system does as well as it can given the
: disparate community and ever-changing playlists. One of the few ways they
: COULD affect this is by decreasing the number of playlists (and the
: frequency with which they add or remove lists) - and this would be a bad
: thing, overall.)
: Bottom line, though: there IS a wide range of skills in most games I play -
: even in lists where purportedly 80+% of the players are below rank 20 -
: and any changes you introduce that widens the skill gap (or, in your
: terms, raises the skill ceiling) will adversely affect the casual
: population.
Probably not totally relevant, but something I notice that the Halo matchmaking system doesn't (or can't) account for is skilled players who have reached their potential and buy a second account for Live.
This makes their rank low and their highest skill low, but they still have the gameplay skills or a General. You end up matched in a list where the numerical skill on screen does not match the player's abilities. This makes for frustrating gameplay to those less skilled (me).
If this was only an occasional occurrence I could shrug it off. I've only been on Live since this past February, so not even a year yet and I see this happening quite frequently.
A friend bought an Xbox and Halo 3 in late summer this year and looking at his Basic Training playlist it seemed to be happening to him too. There was at least one so-called beginner in the match who pasted the other players by a landslide that I don't think was beginner's luck.
I have no solution to this though...I don't know how you can rate someone based on their actual playable skill level and not the easier to calculate numerical rank and skill.
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