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Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..
Posted By: Hawaiian PigDate: 11/13/09 11:28 a.m.

In Response To: Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh.. (Louis Wu)


: Halo's definitely different.

: Non-videogame sports have one VERY important thing that Halo doesn't have:
: referees. Halo's 'rules' have to be built into the engine, in advance,
: which means that the designers have to predict every possible 'exploit'
: ahead of time, and proactively counteract it. If they miss any, they have
: to patch the app, at an extremely high cost (Microsoft HATES to patch
: console apps, for a lot of reasons - one major one is that 75% of players
: don't use the system they use for these patches).

Perhaps this is but another reason why competitive PC gaming tends to be more common :X.

I may not know the specifics, but what exactly prevents the installation of game executables to the console? Could they not streamline this in some way, such that a skeleton-crew of files exists on the console which can be patched? It seems to me that, with most PC games, patches simply adjust the game's executable and, if anything else, a few supporting (often small) data files. I suppose this opens up a can of worms when it comes to users modifying game content, but that threat exists on the PC as well; Valve Anti-Cheat, Punkbuster, and so forth exist for this reason.

This does bring us into the realm of developer's intentions. I was going to bring this up in the initial post, but the entire Starcraft community is practically convinced that many of the intricacies of the game's design were a fluke (hence the considerable apprehension regarding their choices for Starcraft 2). Still, it seems when you have something of particular potential, I think tweaking it in the ways related to the concepts I suggested can help improve the game itself. Blizzard has actually made some promising decisions as well.

In any case, exploits exist on the margin, and they are admittedly few and far between. I've yet to see an equivalent to BXR in Halo 3; unless you want to count flag juggling, which appears to have passive acceptance from Bungie.

The threat of exploits, I think, shouldn't disrupt the development of a complex game. When they arise, you patch them; if you can't patch them, you need to seriously consider how you design the engine (no small task, of course). Yeah, I guess that latter choice is "better luck next game," but that's clearly an unfortunate reality of the business of game design.

When you break it down, it's multiplayer video games are still non-cooperative, and I certainly think the game theory that applies to sports and all adversarial competition still applies. The differences between video games and other adversarial games seems to only run skin deep (that isn't to say they don't severely complicate the issue; skin can do that :X). I still argue that the fundamentals are analogous.

Also, regulation of rules in the realm of video games is a whole other thread (one of which we've had before).

GNET TWITTER



Message Index




Replies:

So you guys want specifics on game design eh...Hawaiian Pig 11/12/09 11:34 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..dizzy 11/12/09 11:53 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:02 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:19 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 12:44 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:11 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 1:31 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:45 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ForShadow 11/13/09 12:52 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 2:28 a.m.
     namedrop B| *NM*Cow 11/13/09 1:10 a.m.
           no me *NM*Eiii 11/13/09 2:13 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hunt3r 11/13/09 1:27 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 2:25 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 2:29 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:23 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 2:14 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:22 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:18 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 1:45 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:51 p.m.
                                   anything not on the bottom LEFT *NM*Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:52 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 2:02 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:17 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 10:36 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 10:51 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:06 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:20 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:37 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:56 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:09 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:06 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/13/09 3:56 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 11:43 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:05 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:48 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/14/09 7:50 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 1:27 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/09 1:43 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 2:00 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 5:06 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 5:32 p.m.
                                                                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 6:11 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/14/09 1:07 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 10:47 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:01 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:28 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:28 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 10:00 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:50 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..RC Master 11/14/09 11:31 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:01 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:30 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/15/09 7:03 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/15/09 8:38 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 5:10 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..elessar787 11/16/09 12:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/16/09 2:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 5:14 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/16/09 8:12 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/16/09 10:24 p.m.
     Great url for the image *NM*Monochron 11/13/09 10:09 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 12:20 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:30 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:44 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:48 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:35 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 6:31 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 7:14 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 9:24 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 9:53 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 10:20 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 10:23 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 3:29 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 4:15 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 4:47 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hedgemony 11/13/09 6:24 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:31 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:12 a.m.
                       Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 3:48 a.m.
                             Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:20 a.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:48 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:16 p.m.
                                                     Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/15/09 5:36 p.m.
                                                           How's high school going psychophan7? *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 8:18 a.m.
                                                                 Re: How's high school going psychophan7?psychophan7 11/16/09 2:40 p.m.
                                                                       That's good to hear. *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 3:39 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 3:41 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.General Vagueness 11/14/09 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:21 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 7:18 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 9:59 p.m.



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