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Oh please, no.
Posted By: psychophan7Date: 11/14/09 3:48 a.m.

In Response To: Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh.. (scarab)


: Campaign could have an awesome pistol, health packs, an effective PP — all
: the goodies that ODST allows us.

: Multiplayer could have regenerating health and tweaks to make the multiplayer
: experience better. (I have to be vague because I don't know what
: multiplayer is like.)

TL;DR version here.

What you're essentially suggesting is that the fundamentals and core mechanics of Halo stay the same between campaign and multiplayer, but changing elements of the sandbox between the two. It would absolutely work, in theory, to have both aspects of the game balanced separately from the other. The problem with it is that players typically do not restrict themselves to one over the other. Radically different sandboxes reduces interchangeability between gameplay modes, which in turn reduces accessibility (ugh*).

It would be a boon for multiplayer if it could be balanced separately, great for it's longevity. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea (I actually loved the idea long before there was officially a "343 Industries.") While I love the idea, I won't support it. It would require more time investment from Bungie to create a second set of rules, a second sandbox, and to balance it. The quality of the game as a whole would diminish, and I think that is unreasonable to ask for. A great multiplayer experience would be preferable, but not at the cost of having a so-so campaign, nor at the expense of having a new game mode thats quickly hacked together and has severely limited replayability as a result.

The way I see it is that campaign is best known for it's epic scenarios and large encounters. Multiplayer is best known for it's tight-knit team scenario-based gameplay. Even the arena-style games are great (as evidenced by the popularity and ongoing existence of competitive MLG Halo). But another great, and most memorable I think, aspect of Halo are the huge multiplayer games, 16v16. Epic scenarios and large encounters. A bit like campaign, actually. The problem with isolating the design of campaign from multiplayer is that the larger multiplayer battles, which will play out much differently that smaller multiplayer battles, seem to take cues from the careful balancing of campaign and multiplayer elements to create a truly amazing experience.

How many of us can recount the number of times there was an awesome 4v4 CTF match on Blood Gulch, Waterworks, or Valhalla that lasted for hours? I'd reckon that they only lasted 15-25 minutes at most. Now, how many of us can recount the number of times there were awesome 8v8 CTF matches on BG, Waterworks, or Valhalla, lasting over 30 minutes? The point I'm trying to make is that long matches can only be possible when the game is balanced (or when both teams decide they would rather defend their flag carriers as a whole than attempt to get their flag back, stagnating the game). You can't achieve that kind of balance on a large scale by isolating design teams.

Actually, screw the large scale multiplayer scenarios. We've all (most of us, anyways) seen how unplayble large games are over Xbox Live. Is it really worth it to expect Bungie to improve their netcode to reliably handle such large games? Arguably no, as we've managed to get by this far without any great large scale games. We'll continue to get by, only playing huge multiplayer games over LAN (or Hamachi.)

* I'm not saying that increased accessibility is a good move. I'm just acknowledging that if Bungie wants their game to be hyper-accessible for everyone and anyone, that reducing accessibility would not be in their best interests. In fact, I will continue to maintain that over-accessibility is a bad move as long as there are ineffective means of segregating casual gamers from hardcore gamers. None can deny that there is only conflict and negative backlash when the two intersect.


Too long for you? Couldn't be bothered to read it?
Developing multiplayer independently from campaign would lower the quality of Halo as a whole.
See: Halo 2.


Message Index




Replies:

So you guys want specifics on game design eh...Hawaiian Pig 11/12/09 11:34 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..dizzy 11/12/09 11:53 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:02 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:19 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 12:44 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:11 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 1:31 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:45 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ForShadow 11/13/09 12:52 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 2:28 a.m.
     namedrop B| *NM*Cow 11/13/09 1:10 a.m.
           no me *NM*Eiii 11/13/09 2:13 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hunt3r 11/13/09 1:27 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 2:25 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 2:29 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:23 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 2:14 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:22 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:18 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 1:45 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:51 p.m.
                                   anything not on the bottom LEFT *NM*Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:52 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 2:02 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:17 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 10:36 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 10:51 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:06 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:20 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:37 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:56 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:09 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:06 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/13/09 3:56 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 11:43 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:05 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:48 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/14/09 7:50 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 1:27 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/09 1:43 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 2:00 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 5:06 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 5:32 p.m.
                                                                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 6:11 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/14/09 1:07 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 10:47 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:01 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:28 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:28 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 10:00 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:50 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..RC Master 11/14/09 11:31 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:01 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:30 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/15/09 7:03 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/15/09 8:38 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 5:10 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..elessar787 11/16/09 12:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/16/09 2:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 5:14 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/16/09 8:12 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/16/09 10:24 p.m.
     Great url for the image *NM*Monochron 11/13/09 10:09 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 12:20 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:30 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:44 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:48 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:35 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 6:31 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 7:14 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 9:24 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 9:53 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 10:20 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 10:23 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 3:29 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 4:15 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 4:47 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hedgemony 11/13/09 6:24 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:31 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:12 a.m.
                       Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 3:48 a.m.
                             Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:20 a.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:48 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:16 p.m.
                                                     Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/15/09 5:36 p.m.
                                                           How's high school going psychophan7? *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 8:18 a.m.
                                                                 Re: How's high school going psychophan7?psychophan7 11/16/09 2:40 p.m.
                                                                       That's good to hear. *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 3:39 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 3:41 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.General Vagueness 11/14/09 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:21 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 7:18 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 9:59 p.m.



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