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Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..
Posted By: Hunt3r <the87th@yahoo.com>Date: 11/13/09 1:27 a.m.

In Response To: So you guys want specifics on game design eh... (Hawaiian Pig)


great post, can't respond to all of it.

i think one of the biggest and most relevant things you brought up is solvability. when you want more 'strategic depth', you usually risk players abusing some tool you added to break the solvability of the game.

in my opinion, bxr is an example of this. why use any weapons other than the BR and Sniper if the BR becomes too good mid through close range? it's a solution. you no longer have to use the other weapons, and 'strategic depth' goes out the window since (for the purposes of weapon control) you no longer have to worry about being countered by weapons that are usually better than the BR at close range. solvability is most evident in games like Pokemon, where due to the ridiculous amounts of stats available to players, they can easily calculate what the best one is (in diamond/pearl it's this dragon dude who looks like a jet plane, forgot all that shit i guess). true, there may be counters against whichever component of the rock/paper/scissors equation you choose, but when your rock beats their scissors way faster than it's supposed to and then damages the paper, you know you've got a solved game.

now for something completaly different:

i think another consideration you have to make, though, is HOW people want to get good at a game. in halo, for example, there's 2 distinct aspects of how good you are at the game: strategy, and phisical good-ness. the former is what i prefer: which part of the map should i be controlling, where should i be looking right now so that nobody sneaks up on me or so i can spot that guy i want to kill, and where should the enemy team be right about now and how do i avoid/ambush them? the other half of this equation is the part i enjoy less, which is "how good am i at aiming/jumping while aiming/ jumping while strafing while aiming/ pressing bxr in the right order and timing", et cetera. it's obvious that a game can comprise one aspect purely while ignoring the other: examples are chess and ikaruga and touhou and even monopoly. i think a lot of the people who dislike modifications to the game that increase dependence on skill instead of strategy are playing a console FPS for exactly that reason: there's less of a skill component, since the controls suck for everybody. strategy gets more important, and the game's more fun for those who value thinking over aiming. not that i'm really taking either side (hint: i like BR starts in spite of my inability to jump around corners), but it's important to consider what most of the game's target audience wants.


Message Index




Replies:

So you guys want specifics on game design eh...Hawaiian Pig 11/12/09 11:34 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..dizzy 11/12/09 11:53 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:02 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:19 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 12:44 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:11 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Avateur 11/13/09 1:31 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:45 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ForShadow 11/13/09 12:52 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 2:28 a.m.
     namedrop B| *NM*Cow 11/13/09 1:10 a.m.
           no me *NM*Eiii 11/13/09 2:13 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hunt3r 11/13/09 1:27 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 2:25 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 2:29 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:23 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 2:14 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:22 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 1:18 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 1:45 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:51 p.m.
                                   anything not on the bottom LEFT *NM*Cody Miller 11/13/09 1:52 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 2:02 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 3:17 a.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 10:36 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 10:51 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:06 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:20 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:37 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:56 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:09 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:06 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/13/09 3:56 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/13/09 11:43 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:05 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:48 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/14/09 7:50 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 1:27 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/09 1:43 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 2:00 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 5:06 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/14/09 5:32 p.m.
                                                                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 6:11 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..General Vagueness 11/14/09 1:07 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 10:47 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/13/09 11:01 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 11:28 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:28 a.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 10:00 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/13/09 11:50 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..RC Master 11/14/09 11:31 a.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:01 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/14/09 9:30 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Louis Wu 11/15/09 7:03 a.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/15/09 8:38 a.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/15/09 5:10 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..elessar787 11/16/09 12:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/16/09 2:47 a.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..ThorsHammer 11/16/09 5:14 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/16/09 8:12 p.m.
                                                           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/16/09 10:24 p.m.
     Great url for the image *NM*Monochron 11/13/09 10:09 a.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Cody Miller 11/13/09 12:20 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:30 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:44 p.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 12:48 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/13/09 12:35 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..reprobate 11/13/09 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 6:31 p.m.
                             Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 7:14 p.m.
                                   Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 9:24 p.m.
                                         Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 9:53 p.m.
                                               Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Eiii 11/14/09 10:20 p.m.
                                                     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/14/09 10:23 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 3:29 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hawaiian Pig 11/13/09 4:15 p.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..psychophan7 11/13/09 4:47 p.m.
     Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Hedgemony 11/13/09 6:24 p.m.
           Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..Narcogen 11/14/09 12:31 a.m.
                 Re: So you guys want specifics on game design eh..scarab 11/14/09 2:12 a.m.
                       Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 3:48 a.m.
                             Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:20 a.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:48 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.scarab 11/14/09 7:16 p.m.
                                                     Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/15/09 5:36 p.m.
                                                           How's high school going psychophan7? *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 8:18 a.m.
                                                                 Re: How's high school going psychophan7?psychophan7 11/16/09 2:40 p.m.
                                                                       That's good to hear. *NM*General Vagueness 11/16/09 3:39 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 3:41 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.General Vagueness 11/14/09 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 5:21 p.m.
                                               Re: Oh please, no.RC Master 11/14/09 7:18 p.m.
                                   Re: Oh please, no.psychophan7 11/14/09 9:59 p.m.



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