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Re: I don't really have any more to say except...
Posted By: Brian Graham <bcgraham@gmail.com>Date: 1/12/07 3:12 p.m.

In Response To: Re: I don't really have any more to say except... (Cody Miller)


: I don't think I'm ignoring everythign else Maranda has done, in fact, I think
: the fact that she was such a strong woman only to end up being held
: captive by Tartarus is particularly telling. usually, a man who is
: descisive, confident etc will be praised, while a woman doing the same
: thing will be scolded (such as being called a bitch).

: My question of "why wouldn't sarge be the one captive, and Miranda the
: rescuer", I think is an important question. Nobody would accept this
: scenario. Why? Because Sarge is in charge, badass, cool, calm, and a cigar
: smoking fighting machine. To see him helpless would go entirely against
: his character.

: Why then are we not similarly outraged when Miranda is held helpless? She
: exhibited the same qualities as sarge, and it too woud be unlike her
: character. The reason I believe, is that it is because she is a woman, and
: women traditionally have filled those roles in narratives, we accept it.

: As for the marines held captive in Halo 1 and 2, their enprisonment is not
: nearly as hummiliating as Mirranda's.

I think you're right but for the wrong reasons. Sarge is supposed to be a badass, but he's supposed to be a fun, comical badass. (This is in contrast to other "badass" characters who are not supposed to be light, comical characters, such as the Spec-Ops Commander, the Arbiter, and the Chief.) Miranda is supposed to be a dramatic character. Mixing these can create narrative chaos. Exposing the character of Sarge to real tragedy or drama might lead to too much character analysis and remove the fun aspects of him. (For example, Sarge might be seen as a tragic character using comedy as a coping mechanism if we pitied him.)

Miranda's character, on the other hand, has been set up to be dramatically analyzed and opens the game with tragedy (receiving a medal on behalf of her war-hero father). Characters like Miranda are required — there must be a character in 'serious' danger if the Chief is being painted as a 'serious' hero. With no one to save, the Chief can't be a savior. But if we're saving characters who are making jokes and not being serious, it breaks immersion.

That being said, the Sarge is a fully developed character. I know there are counterexamples to what I've established here ("People need heroes, Chief," speech, among others). But Sarge is mostly handled in a light, fun way, associated with gameplay; Miranda is handled in a heavy, serious way, associated with narrative and drama.

My take on Sarge is different than yours in general, as I've illustrated. My characterization would differ from your, "Sarge is in charge, badass, cool, calm, and a cigar smoking fighting machine," to "Sarge is in charge, badass, exciteable, cigar-smoking hating machine."


Message Index




Replies:

Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LONGCody Miller 1/10/07 9:32 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJman 1/10/07 10:12 p.m.
           sOT: quote formattingLouis Wu 1/11/07 5:40 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJillybean 1/11/07 7:10 a.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOLouis Wu 1/11/07 8:03 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOLittlebigman 1/10/07 10:50 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOQsExile 1/10/07 10:55 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOscarab 1/11/07 12:08 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOQsExile 1/11/07 12:26 a.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOscarab 1/11/07 7:11 a.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOhnc 1/11/07 4:00 p.m.
           OMG!MffnMn 1/11/07 7:15 p.m.
                 Re: OMG!QsExile 1/11/07 10:59 p.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSlimby 1/12/07 5:49 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOcypher 1/11/07 1:15 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJillybean 1/11/07 2:54 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOMrAlexZander 1/11/07 3:07 a.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSniping Ajax 1/11/07 2:12 p.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOLouis Wu 1/11/07 5:59 a.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJillybean 1/11/07 7:07 a.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 8:31 a.m.
                             Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJillybean 1/11/07 10:19 a.m.
                             Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSniping Ajax 1/11/07 2:04 p.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LODanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:11 p.m.
                             Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOWraith7n 1/11/07 12:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 12:20 p.m.
                                         Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LODangerousHippo 1/11/07 4:01 p.m.
                             Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 12:18 p.m.
                                   Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LODanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 12:50 p.m.
                                               Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LODanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:52 p.m.
                                   Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOtarehart 1/11/07 3:55 p.m.
                             Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOCody Miller 1/11/07 12:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOMullet Man 1/13/07 8:42 p.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOQuantum 1/11/07 6:32 p.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOMullet Man 1/13/07 8:33 p.m.
                             But how decreased?DanteThePoet 1/14/07 12:16 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOBrian Graham 1/11/07 2:57 p.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LODanteThePoet 1/14/07 6:16 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOreprobate 1/11/07 3:13 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LORVideo 1/11/07 6:18 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOWraith7n 1/11/07 8:43 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOSep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 7:02 a.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOscarab 1/11/07 7:29 a.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOJillybean 1/11/07 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOCody Miller 1/11/07 12:28 p.m.
     Femininity eh??N1NJ4 1/11/07 10:23 a.m.
           Re: Femininity eh??Jillybean 1/11/07 10:42 a.m.
                 Re: Femininity eh??Ross Mills [subnova] 1/11/07 11:19 a.m.
                 Re: Femininity eh??The More Deluded 1/11/07 12:09 p.m.
                 Re: Femininity eh??N1NJ4 1/11/07 12:32 p.m.
                       Re: Femininity eh??Jillybean 1/11/07 12:47 p.m.
                             Re: Femininity eh??Wraith7n 1/11/07 12:52 p.m.
                                   Re: Femininity eh??Jillybean 1/11/07 12:54 p.m.
                                         Re: Femininity eh??Wraith7n 1/11/07 12:57 p.m.
                                               Re: Femininity eh??Jillybean 1/11/07 12:59 p.m.
                                                     Re: Femininity eh??The More Deluded 1/11/07 1:07 p.m.
                                                           Re: Femininity eh??Wraith7n 1/11/07 1:12 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Femininity eh??raptor117 1/11/07 1:20 p.m.
                                                                       DAMN! a minute too late :) *NM*The More Deluded 1/11/07 1:22 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Femininity eh??The More Deluded 1/11/07 1:21 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Femininity eh??QsExile 1/12/07 12:48 a.m.
                 She Speaks No Lie...Mintz 1/11/07 5:10 p.m.
           Re: Femininity eh??hnc 1/11/07 4:40 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LO*THASF* A.K.A. The Halo And Sonic Fan 1/11/07 10:30 a.m.
     Why?Pinkuh 1/11/07 11:11 a.m.
           Re: Why?Sep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 11:59 a.m.
           Re: Why?Omak2007 1/11/07 11:59 a.m.
           Re: Why?mercury 1/11/07 12:03 p.m.
                 Re: Why?Pinkuh 1/11/07 12:11 p.m.
                       Re: Why?Wraith7n 1/11/07 12:19 p.m.
                             LOL *NM*huskerblackshrt 1/11/07 8:21 p.m.
           Re: Why?yakaman 1/11/07 12:30 p.m.
                 Re: Why?raptor117 1/11/07 1:18 p.m.
                       Re: Why?hnc 1/11/07 4:25 p.m.
                             Re: Why?raptor117 1/11/07 6:36 p.m.
                                   Re: Why?hnc 1/12/07 10:44 a.m.
                                         Re: Why?raptor117 1/12/07 11:22 a.m.
           I personally had a conversation with Statan.DanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:48 p.m.
                 Re: I personally had a conversation with Statan.Melkor 1/11/07 4:56 p.m.
                       Re: I personally had a conversation with Statan.The More Deluded 1/11/07 5:57 p.m.
                             Re: I personally had a conversation with Statan.Wraith7n 1/11/07 7:20 p.m.
                                   Same person. *NM*DanteThePoet 1/12/07 1:44 a.m.
           Re: Why?Jillybean 1/11/07 12:50 p.m.
                 Re: Why?reprobate 1/11/07 4:46 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOWraith7n 1/11/07 12:06 p.m.
           Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOThe More Deluded 1/11/07 1:59 p.m.
                 Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOWraith7n 1/11/07 2:05 p.m.
     I don't really have any more to say except...DanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:16 p.m.
           Re: I don't really have any more to say except...Sep7imus [subnova] 1/11/07 12:29 p.m.
                 Re: I don't really have any more to say except...Schedonnardus 1/11/07 12:39 p.m.
                 Re: I don't really have any more to say except...DanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:45 p.m.
                       Re: I don't really have any more to say except...hnc 1/11/07 4:32 p.m.
           And further...DanteThePoet 1/11/07 12:35 p.m.
                 Re: And further...Endbringer 1/11/07 1:23 p.m.
           Re: I don't really have any more to say except...hnc 1/11/07 3:54 p.m.
           Re: I don't really have any more to say except...houseoftang 1/11/07 7:22 p.m.
           Re: I don't really have any more to say except...Cody Miller 1/12/07 1:38 p.m.
                 Re: I don't really have any more to say except...Brian Graham 1/12/07 3:12 p.m.
                 Re: I don't really have any more to say except...houseoftang 1/12/07 5:51 p.m.
                 Re: I don't really have any more to say except...Black Guard 1/13/07 5:32 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOCANTANATRIX 1/11/07 12:21 p.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOHellhawk 1/11/07 4:09 p.m.
     We may have overlooked one little plot issueRVideo 1/11/07 4:50 p.m.
           Re: We may have overlooked one little plot issueUrsusArctos 1/12/07 9:48 p.m.
     Gender in Halo Fan Fictionhouseoftang 1/11/07 6:37 p.m.
     Cortana: a Defence (R.E Gender)CANTANATRIX 1/11/07 8:09 p.m.
           Re: Cortana: a Defence (R.E Gender)Oo Sol oO 1/12/07 11:00 a.m.
     Re: Gender in Halo 2 (response to DanteThePoet) LOHipboyScott 1/12/07 4:00 p.m.



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