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Re: eek, what did I say?
Posted By: Louis Wu <halo@bungie.org>Date: 8/29/05 8:53 a.m.

In Response To: Re: eek, what did I say? (Mothergoat)

: I suppose "imbalanced" was the wrong word. I was just trying to
: point out that you can take power weapons completely out of the game...not
: necessarily as a killing advantage, but as a control mechanism to never
: allow the other team the option of getting it ever. I.E. : why even have
: it on the map?

Because in the HUGE majority of games played over XBL (I'd put money on 90%+), it doesn't work that way, in practice. NOBODY does that with a power weapon - they use it until someone kills them. The number of teams that coordinate player position to the point where the rocket guy holds on to his last shot until someone from his team is camping the spawn spot is so small as to be irrelevant from a gameplay design standpoint. (This was NOT true in Halo - as you, and others have pointed out. Even I worked on being near spawn points at respawn times - but I don't think this made for a necessarily better game... just a different one.)

I'm POSITIVE that there are gonna be dozens of you who either write (or think) "man, EVERY game I play is like that - he's totally clueless!" - and I'll remind you that there are 2 million people playing Halo 2 online, and another 5 million playing in their homes, most of them on lans occasionally - the vast majority aren't as good as you are.

: Yes, but you have to stay in the vicinity, being open to all gunfire from
: almost 360 degrees. It's not a hide and seek effort to find who's still
: holding the launcher.

A later post of yours clarified that you were thinking of Chill Out, not Damnation - so this part of the discussion has become irrelevant. :) (Yeah, the rocket spawn in Chill Out is pretty vulnerable. WAY more vulnerable than the rocket spawn on Damnation. :) )

: Cool. And I can't argue with that. Really. What I define as A+ moments can be
: completely expendable to others. I, personally, find placing an accurate
: frag to a skidding warthog more satisfying than your situation, sending
: spartans spilling over in disarray and finishing them off with my weapon
: of choice, as seen here - Click here.

I miss those, too. (I remember writing up a post after E3 2001 describing my exhilaration at watching a hog do a barrel roll over my head because of a grenade throw - and then continue on... wait, lemme see if I can find it... yeah.

http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive3.pl?read=57110

That was really cool. Yeah, it would be awesome if that sort of thing could still happen.)

: We just disagree.

: NEVER, EVER said the fun factor is gone. C'mon buddy, I can't afford to have
: you put words in my mouth. I said "A+ moments? Gone" The fun
: factor has been reduced to the B range as implied beforehand.

My bad interpretation, then - to me, there are A+ moments in almost every gaming session. If the best I could get out of Halo 2 was a B, I'd stop playing. Really - I've got better things to do with my time than play a so-so game. (Maybe you and I are defining 'B' differently... but the bottom line, to me, is the fun factor is easily as high in Halo 2 multiplayer as it was in Halo multiplayer - just for different things.)

: Right, but Halo 2 is still by far the best XBL game. Nowhere EVER did I say
: Halo 2 isn't fun, nor the best XBL game.

To me, 'B' isn't exhilarating... it's just fun. Like 'we hung out at the beach today - we had fun.'

: I think weapon relationships are flawed in both games, but less so in Halo 1.
: I am not going to spend any more energy rehashing all of that again. But I
: never, ever thought I did so in a disrespectable manner.

I never meant to suggest that you were being disrespectful - nor did I mean to disrespect YOUR opinions... I was just responding to them. I was trying to show you where my opinions differed from yours. Sorry if the wording was awkward. (It was late. :) )

:: Ouch. I'm sorry your opinion of me is that low. Honestly, I am pretty
: teachable and open...but I like to think I come to battle armed with
: something sound before I open my mouth.

My opinion of you isn't low - I don't think that simply being firm in your belief of a subject that you've argued and discussed and agonized over for months (or years) means you're shallow or stupid. I didn't introduce any new information in my argument - I simply restated my position. You did the same. In fact, if my restatement DID get you to say 'wow, I've thought about this all wrong, Halo 2 IS more fun than Halo 1!' - I'd be pretty darned suspicious. :)

: Maybe it's how strong I state my opinions, but my mind has been changed
: before due to some really great points. Some hit me well, some others
: miss, I guess.

Again - this isn't a subject you haven't thought about exhaustively. You've written articles looking in-depth at why you feel the way you feel - you've read dozens more from others who were similarly thorough in their analysis. Without new info (and this thread holds none), there's no reason WHY your opinion should change.

: I'm feverishly searching my past words to find any illogical harshness that I
: may have let slip from my stream of consciousness...I'm so confused.

Apologies for whatever tone made you believe I was scornful or angry. I'm definitely tired of the argument - I suppose I could have guessed that expressing my opinion about the subject in a news post would piss some people off, which STARTED these threads... but basically, I was just restating my opinion.

None of what I wrote was intended to be a slam on you - I was simply arguing points. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Message Index



Replies:

New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 9:59 p.m.
     I was expecting more from 1-upDevil Mingy 8/27/05 10:07 p.m.
           Re: I was expecting more from 1-upEname Nep 8/27/05 10:33 p.m.
                 Re: I was expecting more from 1-upDevil Mingy 8/27/05 10:41 p.m.
                       Re: I was expecting more from 1-upEname Nep 8/27/05 10:47 p.m.
                             Pathetic. I also expected more...Spartan Jag 8/29/05 10:40 a.m.
           Re: I was expecting more from 1-upkapowaz 8/31/05 8:07 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Paladin117 8/27/05 10:15 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Paladin117 8/27/05 10:23 p.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 10:35 p.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...zink 8/27/05 10:55 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 11:07 p.m.
                                   Everything he wrote is correct.JakeDaGreat 8/27/05 11:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Devil Mingy 8/27/05 11:49 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.JakeDaGreat 8/28/05 12:13 a.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Dave "IronSight" 8/28/05 11:51 p.m.
                                                     Re: Everything he wrote is correct.lyKENthropy 8/29/05 1:48 p.m.
                                                           Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Halo2needsthepistol 8/29/05 4:00 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Everything he wrote is correct.lyKENthropy 8/29/05 6:04 p.m.
                                         You looking for a marksman?[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:16 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Doc Platinum 8/29/05 2:37 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.UNSCDF 8/29/05 5:09 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Sep7imus [subnova] 8/29/05 2:41 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Endbringer 8/29/05 3:04 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.hedfones 8/31/05 12:42 p.m.
     That can't be right.Pvt. Jenkins 8/28/05 12:59 a.m.
           Re: That can't be right.masterskill 8/28/05 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: That can't be right.Ename Nep 8/28/05 4:23 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Dean_Kreger 8/28/05 8:54 p.m.
     Yes, broken halo.WaLKa 8/28/05 10:49 p.m.
           Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:07 p.m.
                 Re: Yes, broken halo.WaLKa 8/28/05 11:15 p.m.
                       Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:19 p.m.
                             Re: Yes, broken halo.[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:25 p.m.
                                   Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:27 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:34 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.SuperMatt 8/29/05 4:59 a.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 2:58 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.Shocc 8/31/05 7:05 p.m.
                                                     Re: Yes, broken halo.Count Zero 9/1/05 9:39 a.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Spartan Jag 8/29/05 4:40 p.m.
                             Re: Yes, broken halo.Scarab 8/30/05 1:11 a.m.
                                   Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 3:04 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/31/05 4:16 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 4:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Scarab 8/31/05 8:25 p.m.
           Re: Yes, broken halo.Usul 8/31/05 9:41 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Nug Blazer 8/28/05 11:14 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:16 p.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/28/05 11:23 p.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:25 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/28/05 11:28 p.m.
                                   Re: New article at 1up.com...Lion 8/29/05 8:13 p.m.
                                         Louischaostheory101 8/29/05 8:40 p.m.
                                               This is getting absurd.Louis Wu 8/30/05 8:01 a.m.
                                                     Re: This is getting absurd.Shocc 8/31/05 7:11 p.m.
                                                           Re: This is getting absurd.Count Zero 9/1/05 9:38 a.m.
                                                                 Re: This is getting absurd.Shocc 9/1/05 5:12 p.m.
                                               Bah.Louis Wu 8/30/05 8:11 a.m.
                                               Re: Louiskapowaz 8/31/05 8:18 a.m.
                                                     Despite the previous message's subject line...kapowaz 8/31/05 8:20 a.m.
                                               Re: Louisshooty guy 8/31/05 4:39 p.m.
                                                     Re: LouisLouis Wu 8/31/05 4:46 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...zugy 8/29/05 12:24 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Michael M. 8/28/05 11:52 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/29/05 12:08 a.m.
                                   ...What?Michael M. 8/29/05 1:35 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...zugy 8/29/05 12:20 a.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...kapowaz 8/31/05 8:14 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/31/05 10:32 a.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...mercury 8/31/05 12:39 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...Pizack 8/31/05 12:49 p.m.
     It's all patchwork, folksMothergoat 8/28/05 11:54 p.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folksMothergoat 8/29/05 12:00 a.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folkszugy 8/29/05 12:18 a.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folksLouis Wu 8/29/05 12:23 a.m.
                 Re: eek, what did I say?Mothergoat 8/29/05 1:11 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say? addendMothergoat 8/29/05 1:16 a.m.
                       Re: Damnation =/= Chill OutMothergoat 8/29/05 1:39 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say?mnemesis 8/29/05 1:52 a.m.
                             ...Some of us are more prone than others... *NM*SOA 8/29/05 5:23 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say?Louis Wu 8/29/05 8:53 a.m.
                             Re: The A, B's & C'sMothergoat 8/29/05 9:27 a.m.
                 Re: It's all patchwork, folksprofhalo 8/29/05 3:18 a.m.
                       Re: It's all patchwork, folksEndbringer 8/29/05 2:13 p.m.
                 Re: It's all patchwork, folksHalo2needsthepistol 8/29/05 4:13 p.m.
                       Re: It's all patchwork, folksLouis Wu 8/29/05 4:17 p.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folkszink 8/31/05 12:05 p.m.
     good atricleprofhalo 8/29/05 2:39 a.m.
           Re: good atricleLouis Wu 8/29/05 9:04 a.m.
                 Re: good atricle[AMS] GreyThor 8/29/05 4:39 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Pkmnrulz240 8/29/05 10:56 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Konrad 8/29/05 12:05 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...zink 8/31/05 3:17 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Varsis 8/29/05 12:56 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...ratboy 8/29/05 1:23 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Overswarm 8/29/05 4:35 p.m.
                 Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 8/30/05 9:24 a.m.
                       Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Overswarm 8/30/05 6:14 p.m.
                             Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Devil Mingy 8/30/05 8:18 p.m.
                             Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 8/30/05 9:03 p.m.
                                   Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Red Dingo 8/30/05 10:55 p.m.
                                         Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Mattat 9/1/05 8:54 a.m.
     my intelligence was assaulted *NM*Cuda II 8/29/05 8:06 p.m.
           I have something to say...Whisp 8/31/05 3:00 p.m.
                 This is ridiculousLocksmitch 8/31/05 8:17 p.m.
                       Re: This is ridiculousLouis Wu 9/1/05 8:02 a.m.
                             Re: This is ridiculousLocksmitch 9/1/05 4:26 p.m.
                                   Re: This is ridiculousAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/1/05 5:31 p.m.
                                         Re: This is ridiculousLocksmitch 9/1/05 8:43 p.m.
                                               Re: This is ridiculousCount Zero 9/2/05 7:29 a.m.
                                               Re: This is ridiculousAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/2/05 8:03 a.m.
                             My opinion.Shocc 9/1/05 10:49 p.m.
                             Grenades on midshipNarcogen 9/2/05 2:52 a.m.



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