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Re: It's all patchwork, folks
Posted By: Louis Wu <halo@bungie.org>Date: 8/29/05 12:23 a.m.

In Response To: It's all patchwork, folks (Mothergoat)

: Halo 2: Playing, playing playing...someone gets the power weapon and saves
: his last shot - game becomes an imbalanced stalemate since the other team
: has no chance of getting it again. Rocket/Beam guy can go hide anywhere,
: not constrained to the spawn point since it won't span ever again now.

If he does this, his team is down one player - and the rest of them are now on an even footing with the opposition (because the power weapon is out of play). How is this an advantage?

: Halo 1: Damnation...To hog the rockets, you are stuck standing on the spawn
: point, not free to roam around and hide. Thus, you are open to fire from
: anywhere. There is risk involved in controlling power weapons in H1.

Wrong. You can EASILY camp the rocket spawn from above. You have the damn rocket launcher, after all.

: Weapon respawns keep the ebb and flow exponentially encouraging MORE
: strategies. Halo 2 just ebbs, allowing minimal strategic
: planning...whether you win or lose.

We'll have to agree to (violently) disagree on this point - our opinions are so far apart I can't even see where you're coming from. :(

: Many of the A+ fun moments from Halo 1 were (knowingly or unknowingly) cut in
: favor of B+ ideas like jacking and dual wielding. "Liked the way
: grenades affected vehicles in Halo 1 and gave you an awesome sense of
: satisfaction? Sorry, we want to encourage jacking so the vehicles will
: have to be near indestructible. Like accurately timing rocket splashes to
: flip vehicles? Can't do that either because of the aforementioned
: scenario. But, we'll make a lock-on feature that will give you an instant
: kill. " Satisfaction: dampened. A+ moments? Gone.

I find GLORIOUS satisfaction by jumping as a ghost boosts towards me for a splatter, then slamming a stickydoom down on the driver's head as he passes below me. That simply didn't happen in Halo.

(I'm not saying there weren't really satisfying moments in Halo - please don't think I am. I'm simply disagreeing with your argument that the fun factor is gone. For me, the fun factor is FAR GREATER with 2 than with 1. Yeah, I'm a single datapoint - but so are you.)

Today, almost 10 months after the release of Halo 2, Halo 2 is STILL the most popular game played on Xbox Live. Two years ago, you might have been able to make an argument that this would be simply because everything else out there sucked - but that's not true anymore.

Level 35 players are going to have to face the fact that they're a tiny minority of the Halo 2-playing base, and that things they don't like work perfectly well for the vast majority of us that are not infallible on the playing field. In 99% of the games I play, having the power weapon doesn't make you invincible, being the host doesn't make you invincible, being in a vehicle doesn't make you invincible, the winner of a dual-wielding matchup is not a foregone conclusion. It MIGHT be true at the upper levels... but most of us aren't AT the upper levels. Making all the dual-wield combinations equal would make me wonder why dual-wielding was in there at all.

Take that argument to its extreme - 'rebalance weapons to make it less of a "this combination beats this one" situation'... let's make the magnum do the same damage as a rocket launcher, because geez, this weapon beats that one. That's silly, right? So why isn't it silly to suggest that all dual-wields should be the same? (Sorry, not the same - 'rebalanced', whatever the hell that is.)

brute plasma/smg beats ANYTHING close-range. get far enough away, and a decent BR handler can kill the bp/smg wielder before the spread shots can kill, though - so the key is to stay out of close range.

This means the bp/smg guy should be hiding, waiting for targets to come around a blind corner, while the BR guy should be staying more in the open, keeping some distance. They're each holding a weapon (or weapon combo) that will beat the other guy - in a certain situation. The goal, then, is to lure your opponent into the situation where YOUR weapon is better.

In Halo, the pistol beat almost everything, at almost every range, reducing the competition down to who is the more accurate shot. Bell curves being what they are, the most accurate folks are in a minority - which meant that MOST of us were at the mercy of the really good pistol shots. In Halo 2, knowing WHAT weapon to use sometimes matters more than being the perfect marksman.

::shrug::

All of this has been rehashed over and over and over and over and over again. Nothing I've written (or you've written) is new. Nothing I say is novel enough to change your mind, and nothing you've said is different enough to change mine. And I was supposed to be in bed an hour ago. :(

Off now. I guess I'll finish this in the morning.

Message Index



Replies:

New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 9:59 p.m.
     I was expecting more from 1-upDevil Mingy 8/27/05 10:07 p.m.
           Re: I was expecting more from 1-upEname Nep 8/27/05 10:33 p.m.
                 Re: I was expecting more from 1-upDevil Mingy 8/27/05 10:41 p.m.
                       Re: I was expecting more from 1-upEname Nep 8/27/05 10:47 p.m.
                             Pathetic. I also expected more...Spartan Jag 8/29/05 10:40 a.m.
           Re: I was expecting more from 1-upkapowaz 8/31/05 8:07 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Paladin117 8/27/05 10:15 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Paladin117 8/27/05 10:23 p.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 10:35 p.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...zink 8/27/05 10:55 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...Ename Nep 8/27/05 11:07 p.m.
                                   Everything he wrote is correct.JakeDaGreat 8/27/05 11:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Devil Mingy 8/27/05 11:49 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.JakeDaGreat 8/28/05 12:13 a.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Dave "IronSight" 8/28/05 11:51 p.m.
                                                     Re: Everything he wrote is correct.lyKENthropy 8/29/05 1:48 p.m.
                                                           Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Halo2needsthepistol 8/29/05 4:00 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Everything he wrote is correct.lyKENthropy 8/29/05 6:04 p.m.
                                         You looking for a marksman?[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:16 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Doc Platinum 8/29/05 2:37 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.UNSCDF 8/29/05 5:09 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Sep7imus [subnova] 8/29/05 2:41 p.m.
                                               Re: Everything he wrote is correct.Endbringer 8/29/05 3:04 p.m.
                                         Re: Everything he wrote is correct.hedfones 8/31/05 12:42 p.m.
     That can't be right.Pvt. Jenkins 8/28/05 12:59 a.m.
           Re: That can't be right.masterskill 8/28/05 3:04 a.m.
                 Re: That can't be right.Ename Nep 8/28/05 4:23 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Dean_Kreger 8/28/05 8:54 p.m.
     Yes, broken halo.WaLKa 8/28/05 10:49 p.m.
           Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:07 p.m.
                 Re: Yes, broken halo.WaLKa 8/28/05 11:15 p.m.
                       Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:19 p.m.
                             Re: Yes, broken halo.[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:25 p.m.
                                   Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:27 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.[AMS] GreyThor 8/28/05 11:34 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.SuperMatt 8/29/05 4:59 a.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 2:58 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.Shocc 8/31/05 7:05 p.m.
                                                     Re: Yes, broken halo.Count Zero 9/1/05 9:39 a.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Spartan Jag 8/29/05 4:40 p.m.
                             Re: Yes, broken halo.Scarab 8/30/05 1:11 a.m.
                                   Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 3:04 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Louis Wu 8/31/05 4:16 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes, broken halo.shooty guy 8/31/05 4:42 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes, broken halo.Scarab 8/31/05 8:25 p.m.
           Re: Yes, broken halo.Usul 8/31/05 9:41 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Nug Blazer 8/28/05 11:14 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:16 p.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/28/05 11:23 p.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/28/05 11:25 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/28/05 11:28 p.m.
                                   Re: New article at 1up.com...Lion 8/29/05 8:13 p.m.
                                         Louischaostheory101 8/29/05 8:40 p.m.
                                               This is getting absurd.Louis Wu 8/30/05 8:01 a.m.
                                                     Re: This is getting absurd.Shocc 8/31/05 7:11 p.m.
                                                           Re: This is getting absurd.Count Zero 9/1/05 9:38 a.m.
                                                                 Re: This is getting absurd.Shocc 9/1/05 5:12 p.m.
                                               Bah.Louis Wu 8/30/05 8:11 a.m.
                                               Re: Louiskapowaz 8/31/05 8:18 a.m.
                                                     Despite the previous message's subject line...kapowaz 8/31/05 8:20 a.m.
                                               Re: Louisshooty guy 8/31/05 4:39 p.m.
                                                     Re: LouisLouis Wu 8/31/05 4:46 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...zugy 8/29/05 12:24 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Michael M. 8/28/05 11:52 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...WaLKa 8/29/05 12:08 a.m.
                                   ...What?Michael M. 8/29/05 1:35 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...zugy 8/29/05 12:20 a.m.
                 Re: New article at 1up.com...kapowaz 8/31/05 8:14 a.m.
                       Re: New article at 1up.com...Louis Wu 8/31/05 10:32 a.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...mercury 8/31/05 12:39 p.m.
                             Re: New article at 1up.com...Pizack 8/31/05 12:49 p.m.
     It's all patchwork, folksMothergoat 8/28/05 11:54 p.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folksMothergoat 8/29/05 12:00 a.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folkszugy 8/29/05 12:18 a.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folksLouis Wu 8/29/05 12:23 a.m.
                 Re: eek, what did I say?Mothergoat 8/29/05 1:11 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say? addendMothergoat 8/29/05 1:16 a.m.
                       Re: Damnation =/= Chill OutMothergoat 8/29/05 1:39 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say?mnemesis 8/29/05 1:52 a.m.
                             ...Some of us are more prone than others... *NM*SOA 8/29/05 5:23 a.m.
                       Re: eek, what did I say?Louis Wu 8/29/05 8:53 a.m.
                             Re: The A, B's & C'sMothergoat 8/29/05 9:27 a.m.
                 Re: It's all patchwork, folksprofhalo 8/29/05 3:18 a.m.
                       Re: It's all patchwork, folksEndbringer 8/29/05 2:13 p.m.
                 Re: It's all patchwork, folksHalo2needsthepistol 8/29/05 4:13 p.m.
                       Re: It's all patchwork, folksLouis Wu 8/29/05 4:17 p.m.
           Re: It's all patchwork, folkszink 8/31/05 12:05 p.m.
     good atricleprofhalo 8/29/05 2:39 a.m.
           Re: good atricleLouis Wu 8/29/05 9:04 a.m.
                 Re: good atricle[AMS] GreyThor 8/29/05 4:39 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Pkmnrulz240 8/29/05 10:56 a.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Konrad 8/29/05 12:05 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...zink 8/31/05 3:17 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...Varsis 8/29/05 12:56 p.m.
     Re: New article at 1up.com...ratboy 8/29/05 1:23 p.m.
           Re: New article at 1up.com...Overswarm 8/29/05 4:35 p.m.
                 Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 8/30/05 9:24 a.m.
                       Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Overswarm 8/30/05 6:14 p.m.
                             Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Devil Mingy 8/30/05 8:18 p.m.
                             Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 8/30/05 9:03 p.m.
                                   Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Red Dingo 8/30/05 10:55 p.m.
                                         Re: On 'competitive-ness' in Halo 2Mattat 9/1/05 8:54 a.m.
     my intelligence was assaulted *NM*Cuda II 8/29/05 8:06 p.m.
           I have something to say...Whisp 8/31/05 3:00 p.m.
                 This is ridiculousLocksmitch 8/31/05 8:17 p.m.
                       Re: This is ridiculousLouis Wu 9/1/05 8:02 a.m.
                             Re: This is ridiculousLocksmitch 9/1/05 4:26 p.m.
                                   Re: This is ridiculousAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/1/05 5:31 p.m.
                                         Re: This is ridiculousLocksmitch 9/1/05 8:43 p.m.
                                               Re: This is ridiculousCount Zero 9/2/05 7:29 a.m.
                                               Re: This is ridiculousAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/2/05 8:03 a.m.
                             My opinion.Shocc 9/1/05 10:49 p.m.
                             Grenades on midshipNarcogen 9/2/05 2:52 a.m.



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