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No.
Posted By: Quirel	Date: 12/28/12 6:15 p.m.
In Response To: Stop with your logic (Cody Miller) : None of that matters, because the sequence is so engaging. It's gripping : emotionally, and it is effective. Which isn't true for Halo 4. -Where did this new armor come from? -Why are the Covenant fighting us again? -Why was that Covenant cruiser made of tissue paper? -Who are these people? -Why is the Didact doing what he's doing? -Why does a vegetarian have fangs? -How did someone like del Rio get in command of the Infinity? -Why am I... wait, am I just waltzing off with a fully armed Pelican? After that confrontation? Shouldn't I be... why aren't they stopping me? -Halo... 03? What? Hold on, can't I hear more about this? -What are all these moving parts for? Why doesn't the Didact just close off the trench like he obviously can? -... How did Cortana... the nuke was in my hands. IN MY HANDS! And how is she getting all physical with me? Where the Hell am I? : Plinkett's main criticism of Attack of the Clones is that Anakin is a whiny : bitch, and realistically Padme would not fall in love with him. Probably : true. But does that matter at all? Unlikely couples exist everywhere in : film. "Truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." I get that odd couples exist, and I've seen some in fiction that actually work. But when an unlikely coincidence occurs or two characters get busy "Because the author says so", it's not as emotionally satisfying as events working out through the characters' own actions. Otherwise, I agree that the editing and flow of that romantic development was terrible, and the whole thing could be salvaged with a different cut. : Logic and coherence does not make a story good. No. They make a story great. The absence of logic and coherence in a story is terrible. It ruins suspension of disbelief. It pulls viewers out of a story. It makes the actual story difficult, if not impossible, to follow. It makes it impossible for the audience to become emotionally involved. The best stories I've enjoyed were complex, well-written, and had plenty of thought put into them. I liked Halo, because I was convinced that there was an overarching story behind it, that there was thought put into the mysteries and the setpieces we visited. I'm disappointed in Halo, because the story is becoming increasingly reliant on cheap tricks, and because artistic license rules the day. The Order of the Stick is probably one of the best stories I've read, bar none. The characters are complicated, lovable, and the story never ceases to amaze me with how well it's been plotted. Events flow logically from one step to another. I don't have to sit back and puzzle over why, for example, the character's weapons change from one strip to another. I never have to invoke the MST3K Mantra. Am I focusing on the wrong thing, because I enjoy both the emotional impact of the story and the effort that goes into this comic? I hope not. Am I wrong for being disappointed when the hard work in Halo is ignored or thrown out, and the writers don't care enough to get the base facts right? I don't think so. 'cause I'm an engineer. : The Loftus approach is not how you get better stories, and it's not how you : enjoy yourself. Entertainment where you turn your brain off is not good entertainment. What you're taking umbrage to is that people are getting hung up on "Little details" like the Warthog's brand spanking new suspension. You're saying that we're getting too logical about these details, and should be enjoying the emotional aspects of the story. Well, as near as I can tell, the reaction to the MJOLNIR Mk. 343i and the new Forward Unto Dawn is just as emotional as it is logical. The logical part is suspension of disbelief. I know that the Chief was wearing Mark 6 when he entered cryosleep. When he wakes up wearing the styrofoam leotard, a part of my brain is wondering "What?". It's trying to bridge what I know and what I see, and it's coming up short. Instead of smoothly making the connection myself, 343i is standing off to the side and telling me "This actually is the Mark 6. This IS the Warthog you're looking for. These are the Grunts and Jackals you've known for so long." Storytelling 101: Show, don't tell. It's something that 343i should have learned from Legends. Three years later, we can safely assume that they refuse to learn that lesson. Now, there's the emotional part of the reaction to the changes. I can't call my reaction to the Warthogs/Grunts/FUD/MJOLNIR logical, because I can't break them into their their components and say what makes a Warthog the vehicle I've loved for the past seven years that I've been a Halo fan. I can't say what components will remove that Warthog-ness if they're omitted. But there's an emotional attachment I have to the characters, vehicles, guns and armor of Halo (what can I say? I'm a hardware junkie), and that attachment is strongest when I look at the Chief and realize that he is wearing Mark 6, not that he's supposed to be wearing Mark 6. Lets continue with the Star Wars analogy. What if Lucas had replaced James Earl Jones with another voice actor? We would recognize that the guy in black is supposed to be Darth Vader, and maybe the new guy will do a pretty schnazzy voice on his own. But it wouldn't BE Darth Vader, because the tones, the emphasis, the presence that J.E.J. brought to Vader would be different. The emotional connection wouldn't be as strong in this one. Now, how about logic getting in the way of emotional engagement? "If reason cannot stop you, perhaps force can delay you." The above was supposed to be ... I dunno. Impactful? Memorable? I dunno. It just made me roll my eyes. Logically, it was a non-sequitor. The Didact never reasoned with us. From the git-go, he was an ugly brute of a villain determined to crush us and bring generic doomsday to Earth. He only ever used force. If you want me to be emotionally invested in a villain, I need a logical reason to be invested. I need to know that the villain is a credible threat. I need to know that if he's not the brightest bulb on the chandelier, he's at least capable of laying down the hurt. I need to know that he is a clear and present danger to ME, not a million faceless civilians I never met. Hell, I need a reason more original than "Save the Earth!" What am I, a Greenpeace activist? Emotionally, Halo 4 had some high points, but that was all on Jen Taylor and Steve Downes. Even though they were shackled to a crew of mediocre writers, their performance was amazing. The rest? Even with all the fancy mocap and rendering technology available to them, 343i's delivery was as subtle as an artillery strike, as skillful as a preschooler playing on a Stradivarius. Rather than drawing on our emotional attachment from the past five games, 343i redesigned the Covenant so that they'd be more bestial, and we were guaranteed to understand that these are the Bad Guys. Instead of expending the effort of designing a satisfying boss battle, they copped out with a QTE. Rather than giving the Chief meaningful opposition, they gave us Forerunner battle droids and Captain del Rio. The point of this long, rambling post? Don't give credit to 343i for serendipity, and don't you dare sell logic short in telling a story.

Message Index

Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 1:49 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	Jaydee	12/28/12 2:44 a.m.
I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Lurono	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Also meant Adywan instead of Adi-Wan *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 3:26 a.m.
Re: I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Email sent *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 8:56 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	uberfoop	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	rhubarb	12/28/12 5:39 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	DEEP NNN	12/28/12 7:43 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Metalingus627	12/28/12 9:43 a.m.
I like this post. *NM*	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 10:58 a.m.
A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:05 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:31 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Leisandir	12/28/12 11:53 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 12:19 p.m.
This!	Chewbaccawakka	12/28/12 12:59 p.m.
The Loftus Approach	Leviathan	12/28/12 11:16 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 11:24 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	mc_leprechaun	12/28/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
Qouth the Falcon, "YES!" *NM*	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:33 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:35 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 3:09 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 3:22 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 12:47 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:26 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 1:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 5:15 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 2:49 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 9:46 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:52 p.m.
Talking about this? *IMG*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:54 p.m.
Re: Talking about this? *IMG*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 5:52 p.m.
Ah, okay.	The Lionheart	12/30/12 6:03 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Gravemind	12/30/12 5:07 p.m.
Thank you for this post. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Ragashingo	12/29/12 2:42 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:21 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 11:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:20 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:36 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:38 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:38 p.m.
Same here. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:42 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/30/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 1:27 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Archilen	12/30/12 11:36 p.m.
Seconded. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:59 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:19 p.m.
Wow, that sounds like my kinda guy!	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:35 p.m.
Agree with this also. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:30 p.m.
*applauds* You're so awesome, Levi.	Gravemind	12/28/12 1:26 p.m.
TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
*Salute* *NM*	Quirel	12/28/12 5:40 p.m.
I don't disagree, but...	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:29 a.m.
My bad	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:36 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/28/12 12:09 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:14 p.m.
It wasn't emotionally compelling for me at all...	Phoenix_9286	12/28/12 1:21 p.m.
No.	Quirel	12/28/12 6:15 p.m.
Very well said, sir. *NM*	Leisandir	12/28/12 8:11 p.m.
As always, I agree with Quirel	Ibeechu	12/28/12 10:38 p.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:18 a.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	scarab	12/29/12 5:02 a.m.
Not quite.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:15 a.m.
I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Leisandir	12/30/12 8:49 a.m.
Re: I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Quirel	12/30/12 1:50 p.m.
Re: No.	TDSpiral	12/29/12 12:09 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: No.	scarab	12/31/12 8:51 a.m.
This is the limbo that I find myself in now. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:04 p.m.
Re: No.	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: No.	Flynn J Taggart	12/29/12 2:12 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/31/12 1:57 a.m.
Re: No.	uberfoop	12/31/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: No.	RC Master	12/31/12 8:59 a.m.
Your brain doesn't work the same way as mine. O_o *NM*	The Lionheart	1/1/13 5:08 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/28/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/28/12 11:57 p.m.
Consistency and the Rules of Two Worlds	NsU Soldier	12/29/12 7:06 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 9:12 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/29/12 9:30 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 11:08 a.m.
Tru dat	scarab	12/29/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:22 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:37 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:39 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/29/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/29/12 7:32 p.m.
Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Kalamari	12/29/12 6:44 p.m.
It's dog food?	scarab	12/29/12 6:55 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	General Vagueness	1/5/13 7:40 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *LONG*	Dundre	1/7/13 7:42 a.m.