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Re: Stop with your logic
Posted By: General Vagueness <General.Vagueness@gmail.com>	Date: 1/5/13 7:40 p.m.
In Response To: Stop with your logic (Cody Miller) : While I admit what 343 is doing with the expanded universe is probably going : to ruin the Halo universe forever, if you simply ignore all that and : concentrate only on what Halo 4 has to offer, I found it to be compelling : in terms of emotional storytelling. : A New Hope. The Death Star approaches Yavin, and begins orbiting the moon. : What follows is one of the best action sequences in film history. But that : makes no sense logically. Why did the rebels not lead the Death Star to a : remote system to mount their assault instead of to their actual base? Why : did the Death Star orbit the planet instead of blowing up Yavin, then with : a clear shot blow up the moon with the rebel base on the other side? Why : do the fighters enter the trench so far away from the exhaust port? Why : not drop in 200 feet away and bypass all those guns? : None of that matters, because the sequence is so engaging. : It's gripping emotionally, and it is effective. It kind of matters. I didn't consider the Death Star blowing up Yavin and then the moon, or indeed just blowing up the planet and letting the debris finish the job, until Robot Chicken pointed it out, which I think I'll put down to being 6 or 7 when I first saw it. I did think, though, the first time I saw it, "Why didn't they just drop down closer to the thing they have to hit?" You have a point though, I forgot about that quickly, and in the years after that I figured there was some unstated reason they had to it that way. : The point of all this, is that I see a lot of Plinkett Style logical : criticism of the Halo 4 story, but to be totally honest I think it hit all : the emotional beats to where none of that mattered at all while playing : through. I felt it worked on that level. It could have been better sure, : but honestly it's second only to Halo in terms of emotional satisfaction : (in terms of purely the narrative). I felt the emotional side mostly worked, but there is more to it than that. : I cut a TV pilot recently. Getting the story to logically make sense was a : huge challenge. The producers were concerned about this, and urged me to : make it make sense. I was able to do this, but while it logically made : sense, it was not engaging. On the second try I ignored logic, and aimed : only for the emotional beats to the story. The resulting story did not : make perfect logical sense, but was very engaging. In fact, they told me : when screened for test audiences absolutely zero people complained about : the story not making sense, despite it being a bit messy. I didn't realize you were up to that level of work in the industry, congratulations. I could say you got lucky or I could comment on the American educational system or society but there are less tired issues here. In particular, a story that doesn't make sense or is confusing seems to me to be a big problem and one that's not usually ignored, but if people don't understand why or how part of a story happened, it's often shrugged off. I don't know what the issue was with the pilot that got shown but I'm guessing it was the second one. : Logic and coherence does not make a story good. : On some level Halo 4 must not have engaged people emotionally otherwise they : wouldn't hate it, but I can't help think that the reason why is that : people went into it with certain expectations, just looking to pick it : apart the moment something was off in order to find fault with 343's : decisions and use shortcomings as evidence that they aren't fit to carry : the franchise forward. Narcogen, you totally did this. I'm sure this is true to a degree with a lot of people. Personally I learned a long time ago to set my expectations nice and low for everything I can see coming. I thought Reach and ODST either had better stories or handled them better. I thought Halo 3's story was... I don't know about better or more emotional or more impactful... I don't know, it was more agreeable, aside from how the Cortana moments were done. The first two games are ahead without question. While I don't like the emotions Reach brings up a lot of the time, it's pretty effective in doing bringing up those emotions. : The Loftus approach is not how you get better stories, and it's not how you : enjoy yourself. ... : Logic and coherence does not make a story good. ... Where was this Cody Miller for the last two new Halo games?

You cannot fall off the floor.

Message Index

Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 1:49 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	Jaydee	12/28/12 2:44 a.m.
I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Lurono	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Also meant Adywan instead of Adi-Wan *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 3:26 a.m.
Re: I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Email sent *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 8:56 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	uberfoop	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	rhubarb	12/28/12 5:39 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	DEEP NNN	12/28/12 7:43 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Metalingus627	12/28/12 9:43 a.m.
I like this post. *NM*	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 10:58 a.m.
A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:05 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:31 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Leisandir	12/28/12 11:53 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 12:19 p.m.
This!	Chewbaccawakka	12/28/12 12:59 p.m.
The Loftus Approach	Leviathan	12/28/12 11:16 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 11:24 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	mc_leprechaun	12/28/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
Qouth the Falcon, "YES!" *NM*	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:33 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:35 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 3:09 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 3:22 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 12:47 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:26 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 1:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 5:15 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 2:49 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 9:46 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:52 p.m.
Talking about this? *IMG*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:54 p.m.
Re: Talking about this? *IMG*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 5:52 p.m.
Ah, okay.	The Lionheart	12/30/12 6:03 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Gravemind	12/30/12 5:07 p.m.
Thank you for this post. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Ragashingo	12/29/12 2:42 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:21 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 11:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:20 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:36 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:38 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:38 p.m.
Same here. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:42 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/30/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 1:27 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Archilen	12/30/12 11:36 p.m.
Seconded. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:59 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:19 p.m.
Wow, that sounds like my kinda guy!	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:35 p.m.
Agree with this also. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:30 p.m.
*applauds* You're so awesome, Levi.	Gravemind	12/28/12 1:26 p.m.
TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
*Salute* *NM*	Quirel	12/28/12 5:40 p.m.
I don't disagree, but...	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:29 a.m.
My bad	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:36 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/28/12 12:09 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:14 p.m.
It wasn't emotionally compelling for me at all...	Phoenix_9286	12/28/12 1:21 p.m.
No.	Quirel	12/28/12 6:15 p.m.
Very well said, sir. *NM*	Leisandir	12/28/12 8:11 p.m.
As always, I agree with Quirel	Ibeechu	12/28/12 10:38 p.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:18 a.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	scarab	12/29/12 5:02 a.m.
Not quite.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:15 a.m.
I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Leisandir	12/30/12 8:49 a.m.
Re: I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Quirel	12/30/12 1:50 p.m.
Re: No.	TDSpiral	12/29/12 12:09 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: No.	scarab	12/31/12 8:51 a.m.
This is the limbo that I find myself in now. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:04 p.m.
Re: No.	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: No.	Flynn J Taggart	12/29/12 2:12 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/31/12 1:57 a.m.
Re: No.	uberfoop	12/31/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: No.	RC Master	12/31/12 8:59 a.m.
Your brain doesn't work the same way as mine. O_o *NM*	The Lionheart	1/1/13 5:08 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/28/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/28/12 11:57 p.m.
Consistency and the Rules of Two Worlds	NsU Soldier	12/29/12 7:06 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 9:12 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/29/12 9:30 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 11:08 a.m.
Tru dat	scarab	12/29/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:22 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:37 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:39 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/29/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/29/12 7:32 p.m.
Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Kalamari	12/29/12 6:44 p.m.
It's dog food?	scarab	12/29/12 6:55 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	General Vagueness	1/5/13 7:40 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *LONG*	Dundre	1/7/13 7:42 a.m.