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Posted By: Quirel | Date: 12/30/12 3:15 a.m. |
In Response To: As always, I agree with Quirel (Ibeechu) I don't think we're on the same wavelength here. I think that my lips are moving, but I'm only coming through in waves. So I'm going to ramble on for another few pages, see if I can get you to agree with me more. I'll deal with Mr. Miller later. : Here's the thing. Story logic gets far too much street cred. Contrary to what
Now, there's a statement that I'll never agree with. "Logic" is too broad, far too all-encompassing. Do you mean in-story logic? As in, internal consistency?
All depends on the story, doesn't it?
When a story starts out, there's a number of premises that the author asks you to accept. Balloons can lift a house, and dogs can converse with you with some sort of collar gizmo. Plasma weapons work, and sufficiently advanced technology can wipe out all life in the galaxy. Magic exists, and you can fight necromancers and ghouls astride a zombie tyrannosaurus rex powered by polka music.** But real-world logic can help a story. Imagine, how far would Star Trek go if the Enterprise actually conformed to reasonable safety standards? Or if the engineers weren't drooling simpletons? The writers would be forced to move away from disaster-of-the-week formats and more towards character arcs. Arcs that don't suck like Wesley's did. There's also a lot to say for common sense. This post would get too long if I started railing against idiot plots, so let's just say that it's hardly ever a good idea to have characters ignore common sense for the sake of the plot. Now inter-story and in-story logic? I consider them the same thing, really. Characters, facts, and events staying consistent. THAT is a hell of a lot more important than adherence to real-world logic. I'm going to use The Order of the Stick as an example again. Are the main characters actors in a story? Are they characters in a webcomic and aware of it? Are they living inhabitants of a world as real to them as our world is to you and me?
The character's backstories, goals, and, well, characterization have all stayed the same, though. I'm only aware of one retcon, and you have to be looking VERY hard at ONE sentence to notice it.
Now look at StarCraft II. In the four years between Brood War and Wings of Liberty, James Raynor forgot about his vow to see Kerrigan dead, and started pining over her again. Gone was the character development, the resentment at being betrayed, and the white-hot fury over Fenix's murder.
*Seriously. Forget about it. The square-cube law laughs in your face. I dare you to go look up the DF-21 and tell me that it won't make a kaiju duck for cover.
: And, as always, Film Crit Hulk explains it far more beautifully than I could, Don't sell yourself short. At least you would use caps and proper grammar. : so here:
Fun fact: OpenOffice has a caps converter too! : So, where I agree with Cody is that logic doesn't matter; story matters. Logic. Matters.
I'm an amateur writer, haven't written as much as I'd like, but I've spent a great deal of time analyzing stories. I've rarely seen a retcon that could have been avoided with clever writing. Please note that I consider a retcon to be an overwriting of previous canon. I don't consider introducing new canon that softens the impact of an old mistake to be a retcon, even if it is retroactive continuity. : And,
So, where did Halo 4 ignoring logic/previous lore make it a better story? : As for the Loftus approach. There's definitely something to be said for
Where did Halo reach the point where retconning was needed to tell a decent story? : In fact, it's kind of impossible to write a story that's 100% internally
"The last man in the world sat alone in a room. There was a lock upon the door." Pity that the giant of a man who wrote that can't collect his prize, seeing as how he died this summer. Rest in peace, sir. : To reference the Hulk's article above, the Joker's plan in TDK doesn't make
Alas, I had several paragraphs explaining how the Joker's plan wasn't as haphazard or dependent on luck as he made it seem. Unfortunately, that was lost when my laptop ran out of power.
Harvey Dent couldn't have shot Joker if he tried. : In contrast, it really does matter that the Chief's armor changes. It does
WE HAVE REACHED CONSENSUS.
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Replies: |
Stop with your logic | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 1:49 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic *SP* | Jaydee | 12/28/12 2:44 a.m. |
I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You.... | Lurono | 12/28/12 3:22 a.m. |
Also meant Adywan instead of Adi-Wan *NM* | Lurono | 12/28/12 3:26 a.m. |
Re: I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You.... | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 11:38 a.m. |
Email sent *NM* | Lurono | 12/28/12 8:56 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | uberfoop | 12/28/12 3:22 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic *SP* | rhubarb | 12/28/12 5:39 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | DEEP NNN | 12/28/12 7:43 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Metalingus627 | 12/28/12 9:43 a.m. |
I like this post. *NM* | SonofMacPhisto | 12/28/12 10:58 a.m. |
A nice hypothesis... | NsU Soldier | 12/28/12 11:05 a.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 11:31 a.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | Leisandir | 12/28/12 11:53 a.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | SonofMacPhisto | 12/28/12 11:55 a.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 12:11 p.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | SonofMacPhisto | 12/28/12 5:01 p.m. |
Re: A nice hypothesis... | NsU Soldier | 12/28/12 12:19 p.m. |
This! | Chewbaccawakka | 12/28/12 12:59 p.m. |
The Loftus Approach | Leviathan | 12/28/12 11:16 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/28/12 11:24 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | mc_leprechaun | 12/28/12 11:27 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | The Lionheart | 12/28/12 5:28 p.m. |
Qouth the Falcon, "YES!" *NM* | NsU Soldier | 12/28/12 11:33 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 11:35 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | SonGoharotto | 12/28/12 11:38 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/28/12 3:09 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 3:22 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/28/12 5:56 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 12:47 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 1:26 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Simpsons Rule | 12/29/12 1:56 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | uberfoop | 12/29/12 5:15 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Simpsons Rule | 12/29/12 2:49 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | uberfoop | 12/29/12 9:46 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/29/12 9:52 p.m. |
Talking about this? *IMG* | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 4:54 p.m. |
Re: Talking about this? *IMG* | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/30/12 5:52 p.m. |
Ah, okay. | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 6:03 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Gravemind | 12/30/12 5:07 p.m. |
Thank you for this post. *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 4:15 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Ragashingo | 12/29/12 2:42 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/29/12 11:21 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 11:56 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Leisandir | 12/29/12 1:20 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 3:36 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Leisandir | 12/29/12 3:38 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/29/12 9:38 p.m. |
Same here. *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 5:01 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/29/12 9:42 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Cody Miller | 12/30/12 11:55 a.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/30/12 1:27 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 5:25 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | Archilen | 12/30/12 11:36 p.m. |
Seconded. *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 4:59 p.m. |
Re: The Loftus Approach | SonofMacPhisto | 12/28/12 5:19 p.m. |
Wow, that sounds like my kinda guy! | The Lionheart | 12/28/12 5:35 p.m. |
Agree with this also. *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/28/12 5:30 p.m. |
*applauds* You're so awesome, Levi. | Gravemind | 12/28/12 1:26 p.m. |
TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/28/12 5:28 p.m. |
*Salute* *NM* | Quirel | 12/28/12 5:40 p.m. |
I don't disagree, but... | SonGoharotto | 12/28/12 11:29 a.m. |
My bad | SonGoharotto | 12/28/12 11:36 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | scarab | 12/28/12 12:09 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Cody Miller | 12/28/12 12:14 p.m. |
It wasn't emotionally compelling for me at all... | Phoenix_9286 | 12/28/12 1:21 p.m. |
No. | Quirel | 12/28/12 6:15 p.m. |
Very well said, sir. *NM* | Leisandir | 12/28/12 8:11 p.m. |
As always, I agree with Quirel | Ibeechu | 12/28/12 10:38 p.m. |
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 1:18 a.m. |
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel | scarab | 12/29/12 5:02 a.m. |
Not quite. | Quirel | 12/30/12 3:15 a.m. |
I know this is slightly OT, but . . . . | Leisandir | 12/30/12 8:49 a.m. |
Re: I know this is slightly OT, but . . . . | Quirel | 12/30/12 1:50 p.m. |
Re: No. | TDSpiral | 12/29/12 12:09 a.m. |
Re: No. | Quirel | 12/30/12 3:33 p.m. |
Re: No. | scarab | 12/31/12 8:51 a.m. |
This is the limbo that I find myself in now. *NM* | The Lionheart | 12/30/12 4:04 p.m. |
Re: No. | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 1:04 a.m. |
Re: No. | Flynn J Taggart | 12/29/12 2:12 a.m. |
Re: No. | Quirel | 12/31/12 1:57 a.m. |
Re: No. | uberfoop | 12/31/12 4:18 a.m. |
Re: No. | RC Master | 12/31/12 8:59 a.m. |
Your brain doesn't work the same way as mine. O_o *NM* | The Lionheart | 1/1/13 5:08 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Kermit | 12/28/12 10:59 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Ibeechu | 12/28/12 11:57 p.m. |
Consistency and the Rules of Two Worlds | NsU Soldier | 12/29/12 7:06 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Leisandir | 12/29/12 9:12 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | scarab | 12/29/12 9:30 a.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Leisandir | 12/29/12 11:08 a.m. |
Tru dat | scarab | 12/29/12 12:11 p.m. |
Re: Tru dat | Leisandir | 12/29/12 1:22 p.m. |
Re: Tru dat | Cody Miller | 12/29/12 3:37 p.m. |
Re: Tru dat | Leisandir | 12/29/12 3:39 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Kermit | 12/29/12 3:33 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | Ibeechu | 12/29/12 7:32 p.m. |
Totally disagree | Avateur | 12/29/12 1:04 a.m. |
Re: Totally disagree | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 12/29/12 11:30 a.m. |
Re: Totally disagree | Avateur | 12/29/12 1:47 p.m. |
Re: Totally disagree | Kalamari | 12/29/12 6:44 p.m. |
It's dog food? | scarab | 12/29/12 6:55 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic | General Vagueness | 1/5/13 7:40 p.m. |
Re: Stop with your logic *LONG* | Dundre | 1/7/13 7:42 a.m. |
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