Frequently Asked Forum Questions
Search the HBO News Archives Any All Exact		Search the Halo Updates DBs Halo Halo2		Bungie Webcam HBO XBL Gamertags *Ar's Simple HTML Guide Shishka's Guide for Newcomers The Lowdown on Download Accelerators Red Loser's Anti-Spamming Guide Egg FAQ | More Egg Stuff c0ld's Movie Starter Guide Shishka's HaloPC Pre-Release FAQ 3.1 AutoMagic 117 StripzMaker
Search Older Posts on This Forum: Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts

Re: Stop with your logic
Posted By: Metalingus627 <mtracy627@yahoo.com>	Date: 12/28/12 9:43 a.m.
In Response To: Stop with your logic (Cody Miller) : I'm actually kind of surprised by ennui or in some cases outright dislike of : the Halo 4 story here and among Halo fans. If this is not the general : consensus then by all means correct me, but it seems most people are not : on board. : While I admit what 343 is doing with the expanded universe is probably going : to ruin the Halo universe forever, if you simply ignore all that and : concentrate only on what Halo 4 has to offer, I found it to be compelling : in terms of emotional storytelling. : When you look at the first two Star Wars prequels, two of the most well known : and prevalent criticisms approach their critique from opposite ends. You : have the Plinkett reviews, which for the most part critique the films by : picking apart the logic of them, and then you have the Phantom Editor who : picks apart and seeks to correct the deficiencies of emotional engagement : with his recuts. : As fun as the Plinkett reviews are, I guarantee you that none of the things : he nitpicks are what made you leave the theatre feeling disappointed. What : left you sour was the lack of emotional engagement. Most films don't make : a lick of sense when you break them down logically, but as long as they : hit the right emotional beats, then the film works. : A New Hope. The Death Star approaches Yavin, and begins orbiting the moon. : What follows is one of the best action sequences in film history. But that : makes no sense logically. Why did the rebels not lead the Death Star to a : remote system to mount their assault instead of to their actual base? Why : did the Death Star orbit the planet instead of blowing up Yavin, then with : a clear shot blow up the moon with the rebel base on the other side? Why : do the fighters enter the trench so far away from the exhaust port? Why : not drop in 200 feet away and bypass all those guns? : None of that matters, because the sequence is so engaging. It's gripping : emotionally, and it is effective. : This is the key. So while Plinkett picks apart logically what was wrong with : the first two prequels, the Phantom Editor's changes actually make the : movies better. If all Plinkett's nit picks were fixed, you would STILL not : be engaged by the film, whereas all those logical holes are still there in : the two recuts but the films work better (The Phantom Edit Marginally : improves the phantom menace, while Attack of the Phantom substantially : improves Attack of the Clones). : Plinkett's main criticism of Attack of the Clones is that Anakin is a whiny : bitch, and realistically Padme would not fall in love with him. Probably : true. But does that matter at all? Unlikely couples exist everywhere in : film. Who gets with whom is governed by the script; the real issue is : having the audience care about the romance. The real problem was that the : emotional aspects didn't work. If you haven't seen Attack of the Phantom, : do it, and you'll see how editing can make the romance work much better on : an emotional level. (It's shocking really how much better it is). : The point of all this, is that I see a lot of Plinkett Style logical : criticism of the Halo 4 story, but to be totally honest I think it hit all : the emotional beats to where none of that mattered at all while playing : through. I felt it worked on that level. It could have been better sure, : but honestly it's second only to Halo in terms of emotional satisfaction : (in terms of purely the narrative). : I came at this from the perspective of not really giving two shits about the : books and the forerunner saga, so perhaps that perspective enabled me to : emotionally engage while others weren't. I don't know what the reason is. : Who knows. : I cut a TV pilot recently. Getting the story to logically make sense was a : huge challenge. The producers were concerned about this, and urged me to : make it make sense. I was able to do this, but while it logically made : sense, it was not engaging. On the second try I ignored logic, and aimed : only for the emotional beats to the story. The resulting story did not : make perfect logical sense, but was very engaging. In fact, they told me : when screened for test audiences absolutely zero people complained about : the story not making sense, despite it being a bit messy. : Logic and coherence does not make a story good. : On some level Halo 4 must not have engaged people emotionally otherwise they : wouldn't hate it, but I can't help think that the reason why is that : people went into it with certain expectations, just looking to pick it : apart the moment something was off in order to find fault with 343's : decisions and use shortcomings as evidence that they aren't fit to carry : the franchise forward. Narcogen, you totally did this. : The Loftus approach is not how you get better stories, and it's not how you : enjoy yourself. I love the game personally, and any complaints or criticisms from me have to do with individual design choices (Covenant portrayal, Dawn architecture, etc), but I don't allow those things to spoil my enjoyment of the story. Honestly, I think Halo 4 has one of the best and most engaging stories of the entire series. Halo 2 will always be my favorite simply because of the rich fiction introduced there, but on an emotional level Halo 4 surpasses even ODST, which was (IMO) the most emotionally engaging Bungie title. I tend to ignore negative reviews and posts (and I was absent for a few weeks after the game released), so I haven't seen much of the hate besides what is to be expected from any new release. Also, I will always compare backlash to the Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco, and I don't see nearly as much hate here as I did then.

Message Index

Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 1:49 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	Jaydee	12/28/12 2:44 a.m.
I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Lurono	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Also meant Adywan instead of Adi-Wan *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 3:26 a.m.
Re: I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Email sent *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 8:56 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	uberfoop	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	rhubarb	12/28/12 5:39 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	DEEP NNN	12/28/12 7:43 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Metalingus627	12/28/12 9:43 a.m.
I like this post. *NM*	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 10:58 a.m.
A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:05 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:31 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Leisandir	12/28/12 11:53 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 12:19 p.m.
This!	Chewbaccawakka	12/28/12 12:59 p.m.
The Loftus Approach	Leviathan	12/28/12 11:16 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 11:24 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	mc_leprechaun	12/28/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
Qouth the Falcon, "YES!" *NM*	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:33 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:35 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 3:09 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 3:22 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 12:47 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:26 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 1:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 5:15 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 2:49 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 9:46 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:52 p.m.
Talking about this? *IMG*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:54 p.m.
Re: Talking about this? *IMG*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 5:52 p.m.
Ah, okay.	The Lionheart	12/30/12 6:03 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Gravemind	12/30/12 5:07 p.m.
Thank you for this post. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Ragashingo	12/29/12 2:42 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:21 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 11:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:20 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:36 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:38 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:38 p.m.
Same here. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:42 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/30/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 1:27 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Archilen	12/30/12 11:36 p.m.
Seconded. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:59 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:19 p.m.
Wow, that sounds like my kinda guy!	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:35 p.m.
Agree with this also. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:30 p.m.
*applauds* You're so awesome, Levi.	Gravemind	12/28/12 1:26 p.m.
TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
*Salute* *NM*	Quirel	12/28/12 5:40 p.m.
I don't disagree, but...	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:29 a.m.
My bad	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:36 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/28/12 12:09 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:14 p.m.
It wasn't emotionally compelling for me at all...	Phoenix_9286	12/28/12 1:21 p.m.
No.	Quirel	12/28/12 6:15 p.m.
Very well said, sir. *NM*	Leisandir	12/28/12 8:11 p.m.
As always, I agree with Quirel	Ibeechu	12/28/12 10:38 p.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:18 a.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	scarab	12/29/12 5:02 a.m.
Not quite.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:15 a.m.
I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Leisandir	12/30/12 8:49 a.m.
Re: I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Quirel	12/30/12 1:50 p.m.
Re: No.	TDSpiral	12/29/12 12:09 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: No.	scarab	12/31/12 8:51 a.m.
This is the limbo that I find myself in now. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:04 p.m.
Re: No.	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: No.	Flynn J Taggart	12/29/12 2:12 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/31/12 1:57 a.m.
Re: No.	uberfoop	12/31/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: No.	RC Master	12/31/12 8:59 a.m.
Your brain doesn't work the same way as mine. O_o *NM*	The Lionheart	1/1/13 5:08 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/28/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/28/12 11:57 p.m.
Consistency and the Rules of Two Worlds	NsU Soldier	12/29/12 7:06 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 9:12 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/29/12 9:30 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 11:08 a.m.
Tru dat	scarab	12/29/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:22 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:37 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:39 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/29/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/29/12 7:32 p.m.
Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Kalamari	12/29/12 6:44 p.m.
It's dog food?	scarab	12/29/12 6:55 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	General Vagueness	1/5/13 7:40 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *LONG*	Dundre	1/7/13 7:42 a.m.