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Re: The Loftus Approach
Posted By: Simpsons Rule <SimpsonsRule17@gmail.com>	Date: 12/29/12 1:56 a.m.
In Response To: Re: The Loftus Approach (Cody Miller) : When the fabric of the canon interferes with your ability to tell a good : story, then you're going to have holes because any good storyteller is : going to pick a hole over something non-engaging any day. : Your attitude greatly limits not only the quantity, but also the quality of : stories that can be told. : Your attitude is bad for storytelling and bad for art . Okay, I'll bite. I know there's been much discussion over the years concerning Reach's retcons, and I haven't combed through it all, but I hated those retcons specifically because they felt so unnecessary. The Pillar of Autumn being stationed on Reach, Halsey providing Noble with Cortana, it all felt so forced. I'm okay with a retcon being made to create an engaging story or to improve on the gameplay, but when you could easily work with the existing material and you choose to change it for no good reason, I get really frustrated. I was a lore nut with Halo. I read all the books many times and jumped into discussions on the forum constantly. I lived for crazy fan theories. When I played Reach, I just stopped caring. Why should I bother reading a novel that can be disregarded so easily? For what purposes were the changes made in Reach? What lore was sacrificed for engagement's sake? Or for the gameplay? Reach was about Noble Team. Bungie's intent was to make you care about them. None of that had anything to do with the Pillar of Autumn's location or transporting Cortana. It had to do with character development and sacrifice. How hard would it have been to have the Pillar of Autumn in space and engaging Covenant forces? An ONI stealth shuttle could've delivered some important piece of equipment (that wasn't Cortana) to Keyes just before leaving Reach. Noble 6 could have delivered the equipment to the shuttle at the dock and still made his sacrifice by choosing not to leave the planet. And none of that would have so heavily contradicted The Fall of Reach. How difficult would it have been to have Halsey communicate with Noble via holograms or monitors while she was stationed at CASTLE base? I don't care that the Halo: CE manual didn't contemplate the existence of other Spartans when there are in fact several generations' worth. I don't care that there were no Covenant snipers in Halo: CE but that Halo: The Flood specifically mentions them. I don't care that melee damage to the Flood in Halo: CE was like smacking them with pinwheel while it was highly effective in later games. I don't care that Cortana looks significantly different in every iteration. All of these things can be considered retcons in a rather descending order of significance. You said it's a problem "[w]hen the fabric of the canon interferes with your ability to tell a good story . . . ." I ask what retcons were in such dire need of being made to create a good story. I'm not arguing the concept, but we may be disagreeing where that line gets drawn. Jen Taylor's voice acting was amazing. The team that designed and animated Cortana did a fantastic job. Steve Downes conveyed a seasoned solder's voice that cracked with emotion at Cortana's struggle in a heart wrenching way. These interactions hit me on an emotional level. I was engaged by this despite many illogical moments in the story. It would have been a far more engaging story if I didn't pause so many times to try and figure out what the hell just happened. Do you recall the cutscene that introduced Gravemind? The Master Chief and the Arbiter were being held by a gigantic plant thing no one had seen before. But it was clearly a Flood specimen of some kind. The dialogue that followed clearly establishes its desire to stop Delta Halo from firing and that made perfect sense because we learned from Halo: CE that firing any of the Installations wiped out most of the life in the galaxy. Contrast that with the Didact's introduction. The Librarian? Imprisonment? His guardians? Did he just make the Master Chief's cover disintegrate? What the fuck is with the giant sphere thing? How did he manipulate everyone while being imprisoned? Why have we never seen Forerunner technology do this before? The Sentinels were given laser points compared to this stuff, and they were designed to protect the gun pointed at the head of the universe! The confusion just grows as time goes on. Give me consistency. Give me a universe that can withstand some scrutiny. Don't give me lazy changes that serve no purpose other than to demonstrate you give no deference to the previous canon. -SR

Message Index

Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 1:49 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	Jaydee	12/28/12 2:44 a.m.
I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Lurono	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Also meant Adywan instead of Adi-Wan *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 3:26 a.m.
Re: I.. Uhhh.... Agree...? With.... You....	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Email sent *NM*	Lurono	12/28/12 8:56 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	uberfoop	12/28/12 3:22 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *SP*	rhubarb	12/28/12 5:39 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	DEEP NNN	12/28/12 7:43 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Metalingus627	12/28/12 9:43 a.m.
I like this post. *NM*	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 10:58 a.m.
A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:05 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:31 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Leisandir	12/28/12 11:53 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: A nice hypothesis...	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 12:19 p.m.
This!	Chewbaccawakka	12/28/12 12:59 p.m.
The Loftus Approach	Leviathan	12/28/12 11:16 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 11:24 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	mc_leprechaun	12/28/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
Qouth the Falcon, "YES!" *NM*	NsU Soldier	12/28/12 11:33 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 11:35 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:38 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 3:09 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/28/12 3:22 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/28/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 12:47 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:26 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 1:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 5:15 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Simpsons Rule	12/29/12 2:49 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	uberfoop	12/29/12 9:46 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:52 p.m.
Talking about this? *IMG*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:54 p.m.
Re: Talking about this? *IMG*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 5:52 p.m.
Ah, okay.	The Lionheart	12/30/12 6:03 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Gravemind	12/30/12 5:07 p.m.
Thank you for this post. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Ragashingo	12/29/12 2:42 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:21 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 11:56 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:20 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:36 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:38 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:38 p.m.
Same here. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:01 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 9:42 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Cody Miller	12/30/12 11:55 a.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/30/12 1:27 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	The Lionheart	12/30/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	Archilen	12/30/12 11:36 p.m.
Seconded. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:59 p.m.
Re: The Loftus Approach	SonofMacPhisto	12/28/12 5:19 p.m.
Wow, that sounds like my kinda guy!	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:35 p.m.
Agree with this also. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:30 p.m.
*applauds* You're so awesome, Levi.	Gravemind	12/28/12 1:26 p.m.
TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH *NM*	The Lionheart	12/28/12 5:28 p.m.
*Salute* *NM*	Quirel	12/28/12 5:40 p.m.
I don't disagree, but...	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:29 a.m.
My bad	SonGoharotto	12/28/12 11:36 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/28/12 12:09 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Cody Miller	12/28/12 12:14 p.m.
It wasn't emotionally compelling for me at all...	Phoenix_9286	12/28/12 1:21 p.m.
No.	Quirel	12/28/12 6:15 p.m.
Very well said, sir. *NM*	Leisandir	12/28/12 8:11 p.m.
As always, I agree with Quirel	Ibeechu	12/28/12 10:38 p.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:18 a.m.
Re: As always, I agree with Quirel	scarab	12/29/12 5:02 a.m.
Not quite.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:15 a.m.
I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Leisandir	12/30/12 8:49 a.m.
Re: I know this is slightly OT, but . . . .	Quirel	12/30/12 1:50 p.m.
Re: No.	TDSpiral	12/29/12 12:09 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/30/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: No.	scarab	12/31/12 8:51 a.m.
This is the limbo that I find myself in now. *NM*	The Lionheart	12/30/12 4:04 p.m.
Re: No.	Cody Miller	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: No.	Flynn J Taggart	12/29/12 2:12 a.m.
Re: No.	Quirel	12/31/12 1:57 a.m.
Re: No.	uberfoop	12/31/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: No.	RC Master	12/31/12 8:59 a.m.
Your brain doesn't work the same way as mine. O_o *NM*	The Lionheart	1/1/13 5:08 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/28/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/28/12 11:57 p.m.
Consistency and the Rules of Two Worlds	NsU Soldier	12/29/12 7:06 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 9:12 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	scarab	12/29/12 9:30 a.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Leisandir	12/29/12 11:08 a.m.
Tru dat	scarab	12/29/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 1:22 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Cody Miller	12/29/12 3:37 p.m.
Re: Tru dat	Leisandir	12/29/12 3:39 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Kermit	12/29/12 3:33 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	Ibeechu	12/29/12 7:32 p.m.
Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:04 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	12/29/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Avateur	12/29/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: Totally disagree	Kalamari	12/29/12 6:44 p.m.
It's dog food?	scarab	12/29/12 6:55 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic	General Vagueness	1/5/13 7:40 p.m.
Re: Stop with your logic *LONG*	Dundre	1/7/13 7:42 a.m.