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Re: Tips for Reach | |
Posted By: Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) <sumpca@yahoo.com> | Date: 11/14/09 12:36 p.m. |
In Response To: Re: Tips for Reach (elessar787) : You know who Bungie called in to test out the new Mythic maps while in : development? MLG pros. So obviously they have a different opinion about : this than you. I think that's sufficient evidence. *sporfle* MLG pros were called in as one of the test groups. Not to see if the maps were fit for the entire audience of Halo players, but to see what feedback they could provide in relation to Pro use of the maps. I suspect that the infamous "soccer Mom" demographic was also called in to test them, and no one chose to splash it in the press. If you want to build a successful game, one that will satisfy players as well as critics and stakeholders, you don't design it to suit 1% of your audience and then offer options to adjust it for the other 99%; that is far more likely to lead to a "watered down" experience for players than any other approach I can think of. Instead, you balance it for the largest block of players that you wish to reach and then offer adjustments to extend its reach (if you'll pardon the pun) for as much of the remaining play population as possible. -- Steve thinks that the central broken axiom in this debate is that "casual" players either aspire to become "pro" or would be satisfied with a weakened version of professional-style play. This turns out not to be the case.
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Replies: |
Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/9/09 9:26 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Leisandir | 11/9/09 9:33 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/9/09 9:36 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | serpx | 11/9/09 9:38 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | InnerRayg | 11/9/09 9:39 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Devin Olsen | 11/9/09 9:46 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Crab | 11/9/09 9:49 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | SPARTAN 294 | 11/9/09 9:56 p.m. |
agreein with this post *NM* | Hawaiian Pig | 11/9/09 10:02 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | InnerRayg | 11/10/09 2:05 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 2:12 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/10/09 2:49 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 3:01 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/10/09 3:23 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 1:43 p.m. |
Completely agree | Metalingus627 | 11/10/09 2:18 p.m. |
Re: Completely agree | Narcogen | 11/10/09 11:55 p.m. |
Re: Completely agree | Metalingus627 | 11/11/09 3:52 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/10/09 3:00 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 5:25 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/10/09 11:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/11/09 2:20 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/11/09 5:17 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/11/09 2:32 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | chris101b | 11/11/09 12:43 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/12/09 6:01 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | chris101b | 11/13/09 1:27 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | InnerRayg | 11/10/09 6:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hunt3r | 11/9/09 9:55 p.m. |
agreein with this post *NM* | Hawaiian Pig | 11/9/09 9:59 p.m. |
and a P.S. : | Hunt3r | 11/9/09 10:02 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ragashingo | 11/9/09 10:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Leisandir | 11/11/09 3:05 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/9/09 9:55 p.m. |
agreein with this post *NM* | Hawaiian Pig | 11/9/09 10:00 p.m. |
Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | RC Master | 11/10/09 8:08 p.m. |
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | Hedgemony | 11/10/09 8:16 p.m. |
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | RC Master | 11/10/09 8:22 p.m. |
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | Hedgemony | 11/10/09 8:33 p.m. |
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | RC Master | 11/10/09 8:48 p.m. |
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that | Vincent | 11/11/09 2:47 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | kanbo | 11/9/09 10:04 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | dizzy | 11/9/09 10:18 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bernard Strauss | 11/9/09 10:41 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v. | Hedgemony | 11/9/09 11:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v. | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 2:08 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v. | SonofMacPhisto | 11/10/09 9:24 a.m. |
What have you started? | scarab | 11/10/09 9:34 a.m. |
Re: What have you started? | Louis Wu | 11/10/09 9:38 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Captain Spark | 11/9/09 10:29 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ragashingo | 11/9/09 10:59 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Captain Spark | 11/9/09 11:03 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/9/09 11:14 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hawaiian Pig | 11/10/09 2:47 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Rosco-128 | 11/9/09 10:38 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/9/09 11:19 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Rosco-128 | 11/9/09 11:56 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/10/09 12:29 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bry | 11/10/09 8:47 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/10/09 9:48 a.m. |
EEK ODST *SP* ^^^^ *NM* | scarab | 11/10/09 9:50 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Metalingus627 | 11/10/09 2:24 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | The BS Police | 11/9/09 10:40 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cortana 5 | 11/9/09 10:42 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | The BS Police | 11/9/09 10:49 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cortana 5 | 11/9/09 10:56 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hawaiian Pig | 11/9/09 11:00 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hunt3r | 11/9/09 11:20 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/9/09 11:24 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hedgemony | 11/9/09 11:04 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | ArteenEsben | 11/9/09 10:47 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/9/09 11:29 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | ArteenEsben | 11/10/09 10:38 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/10/09 8:46 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ragashingo | 11/9/09 10:48 p.m. |
My Tip for Reach | ZaneZavin | 11/9/09 11:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | bluerunner | 11/10/09 9:45 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 11/10/09 10:50 a.m. |
Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon/H1 | Avateur | 11/9/09 11:03 p.m. |
speaking of reach... | crzymnky069 | 11/9/09 11:07 p.m. |
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon | Narcogen | 11/10/09 12:12 a.m. |
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon | Avateur | 11/10/09 12:40 a.m. |
Reachathon? | Narcogen | 11/10/09 3:11 a.m. |
Re: Reachathon? | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 12:41 p.m. |
Re: Reachathon? | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/10/09 1:37 p.m. |
Re: Reachathon? | Hedgemony | 11/10/09 2:19 p.m. |
Re: Reachathon? | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 3:26 p.m. |
Re: Reachathon? | Narcogen | 11/11/09 12:08 a.m. |
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 2:06 a.m. |
Heresy! | Narcogen | 11/10/09 3:30 a.m. |
Re: Heresy! | Avateur | 11/10/09 3:37 a.m. |
Re: Heresy! | Narcogen | 11/10/09 4:08 a.m. |
Re: Heresy! | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 12:26 p.m. |
5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master | RC Master | 11/10/09 9:16 p.m. |
Re: Heresy! | Narcogen | 11/11/09 12:12 a.m. |
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon | Bry | 11/10/09 7:18 a.m. |
Adjustable Auto Aim | ManKitten | 11/9/09 11:31 p.m. |
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim | crzymnky069 | 11/9/09 11:49 p.m. |
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim | urk | 11/10/09 10:32 a.m. |
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim | ManKitten | 11/10/09 1:17 p.m. |
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim | Gravemind | 11/11/09 1:00 p.m. |
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim | RC Master | 11/10/09 9:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | reprobate | 11/10/09 12:26 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/10/09 12:35 a.m. |
First Person View! | Cody Moore | 11/10/09 1:14 a.m. |
Re: First Person View! | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 2:23 a.m. |
Third Person View! | Narcogen | 11/10/09 3:37 a.m. |
Re: Third Person View! | bluerunner | 11/10/09 9:27 a.m. |
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant... | Hedgemony | 11/10/09 2:05 p.m. |
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant... | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 2:59 p.m. |
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant... | Hedgemony | 11/10/09 4:35 p.m. |
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant... | General Vagueness | 11/10/09 4:06 p.m. |
Re: Third Person View! | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 2:28 p.m. |
Re: First Person View! | ArteenEsben | 11/10/09 10:51 a.m. |
Re: First Person View! | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 11/10/09 10:58 a.m. |
Re: First Person View! | ArteenEsben | 11/10/09 11:20 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 2:08 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bungiez | 11/10/09 1:09 a.m. |
i wanna say this is kp *NM* | Hawaiian Pig | 11/10/09 2:39 a.m. |
Re: i wanna say this is kp | Louis Wu | 11/10/09 8:30 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Someone | 11/10/09 2:10 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/10/09 5:17 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bernard Strauss | 11/10/09 4:12 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/10/09 5:04 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | DrDoctor | 11/10/09 2:14 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bry | 11/10/09 5:35 a.m. |
Wort wort wort | Cody Moore | 11/10/09 6:05 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | hyokin | 11/10/09 10:25 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | Louis Wu | 11/10/09 10:44 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | c0ld vengeance | 11/10/09 12:36 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | Arkesane | 11/10/09 12:47 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | padraig08 | 11/10/09 1:02 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | Avateur | 11/10/09 12:47 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | c0ld vengeance | 11/10/09 12:52 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | bluerunner | 11/10/09 1:01 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | Louis Wu | 11/10/09 1:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | FyreWulff | 11/10/09 5:12 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant | psychophan7 | 11/10/09 2:02 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | urk | 11/10/09 10:43 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/10/09 10:45 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 11/10/09 10:54 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 12:44 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/11/09 12:20 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hawaiian Pig | 11/10/09 3:30 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/10/09 10:48 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/10/09 11:23 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | padraig08 | 11/10/09 1:20 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/11/09 8:34 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/11/09 8:44 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/11/09 9:58 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/11/09 9:59 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/11/09 10:20 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/11/09 12:47 p.m. |
•No barriers or kill zones anywhere in the game. | c0ld vengeance | 11/10/09 12:03 p.m. |
Wow, beat me to it. | profhalo | 11/10/09 1:13 p.m. |
Re: Wow, beat me to it. | Cody Moore | 11/10/09 4:59 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/10/09 1:26 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Matt | 11/10/09 3:44 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/10/09 3:50 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | SonofMacPhisto | 11/10/09 4:26 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/10/09 4:39 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | nash--housewares | 11/10/09 4:50 p.m. |
At-least-semi-valid jackassery. *NM* | Eiii | 11/10/09 7:11 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | ManKitten | 11/10/09 8:37 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/11/09 12:24 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Matt | 11/11/09 12:04 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/11/09 12:36 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/11/09 1:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ducain | 11/11/09 1:28 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | ManKitten | 11/11/09 1:29 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/11/09 10:37 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hedgemony | 11/11/09 10:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Matt | 11/11/09 2:11 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/11/09 3:12 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/11/09 3:46 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hunt3r | 11/11/09 3:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/11/09 10:43 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hawaiian Pig | 11/12/09 3:16 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bry | 11/12/09 3:39 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/12/09 4:55 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/12/09 12:38 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/12/09 12:45 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/12/09 12:54 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/12/09 1:05 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/12/09 1:22 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/13/09 1:20 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/13/09 2:54 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/13/09 4:16 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/13/09 2:53 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Mercury | 11/13/09 4:03 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/13/09 11:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/14/09 12:57 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/12/09 2:24 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hedgemony | 11/12/09 4:47 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Hunt3r | 11/12/09 5:06 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 1:16 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/13/09 1:31 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 1:41 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Mercury | 11/13/09 3:49 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 10:31 p.m. |
Tips for arguments. | Mercury | 11/12/09 5:41 p.m. |
Re: Tips for arguments. | elessar787 | 11/13/09 1:29 a.m. |
Re: Tips for arguments. | Mercury | 11/13/09 3:35 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/12/09 6:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 1:35 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/13/09 5:56 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 8:36 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/13/09 10:59 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/14/09 1:03 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/14/09 2:39 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/14/09 4:02 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/14/09 1:47 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/14/09 2:43 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/14/09 3:58 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/14/09 4:26 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/14/09 5:13 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/14/09 5:38 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Vincent | 11/14/09 5:49 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/14/09 7:14 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Louis Wu | 11/14/09 7:19 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | RC Master | 11/14/09 11:56 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/14/09 12:36 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/13/09 1:28 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | elessar787 | 11/13/09 1:39 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Leviathan | 11/12/09 6:29 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Bry | 11/12/09 1:24 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Captain Spark | 11/12/09 1:25 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/13/09 8:11 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 11/13/09 8:26 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/12/09 9:48 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/12/09 11:09 a.m. |
"Accessable hardcore games." | Gravemind | 11/12/09 8:29 p.m. |
Re: "Accessable hardcore games." | scarab | 11/13/09 5:16 a.m. |
Re: "Accessable hardcore games." | Gravemind | 11/13/09 12:30 p.m. |
Re: "Accessable hardcore games." | scarab | 11/13/09 2:23 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/12/09 9:46 a.m. |
Pure Win, As Usual *NM* | Narcogen | 11/11/09 12:22 a.m. |
Two things | rhubarb | 11/10/09 7:34 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Gravemind | 11/11/09 2:19 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Gravemind | 11/12/09 12:52 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ducain | 11/12/09 10:30 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | General Vagueness | 11/12/09 11:05 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Mirel | 11/12/09 12:06 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ducain | 11/12/09 1:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | zofinda | 11/12/09 1:27 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | DarkS7G | 11/12/09 1:54 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Mirel | 11/12/09 3:08 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Metalingus627 | 11/12/09 3:25 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/13/09 1:53 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | scarab | 11/13/09 5:56 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 2:26 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/16/09 2:38 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/16/09 2:48 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 12:03 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Leviathan | 11/16/09 3:16 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/16/09 6:11 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 11:55 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ibeechu | 11/16/09 12:19 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Ibeechu | 11/16/09 12:21 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Dani | 11/16/09 12:27 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 12:35 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Dani | 11/16/09 12:43 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 2:18 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | psychophan7 | 11/16/09 3:01 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 11/16/09 2:16 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 2:24 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/16/09 9:04 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/16/09 9:56 p.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Narcogen | 11/17/09 5:30 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | Cody Miller | 11/17/09 12:45 p.m. |
Framerate and buying habits | Narcogen | 11/18/09 5:51 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | sorahn | 11/17/09 1:59 a.m. |
60 seems unreal anyway. Keep it 45 if you ask me | Mirel | 11/16/09 3:19 a.m. |
Bad idea | Narcogen | 11/16/09 6:08 a.m. |
Re: Tips for Reach | FyreWulff | 11/16/09 6:54 a.m. |
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