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Re: Reachathon?
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>	Date: 11/11/09 12:08 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Reachathon? (Cody Miller) : Ahhh now I see. You like the accomplishment of Legendary but not any of the : work of skill building. Since playing Halo is not my job, no, I don't want it to be work. I want it to be play, as in, "playing a game". If I wanted to work a game I'd go back to Eve Online. I have no trouble with Legendary being a static yardstick. Each game needs its individual difficulty curve but you seem to be functioning on the assumption that the series itself should have its own curve where Legendary in each successive game is harder than the last one in order to reward greater skill input. If you want a feeling of accomplishment as a reward for your input of work at skill building, and you want recognition for working harder and having more skill than other people, then I have one suggestion: 1) Ask Bungie to implement higher difficulty levels, which I suppose they might do, but I doubt it. Actually I had a second suggestion that involved public lavatories, dick-waving and measuring tapes, but somehow it failed to materialize. : I'm not complaining games are getting shorter, they are getting way longer. : Too long in fact. I don't think in most games there is enough of a : mechanic to really sustain more than 2 hours of play. Anything beyond that : just gets either repetitive or stretched boringly thin. Games used to be : as long as they needed to be before running out of ideas, not 10-15 hours : regardless of material left. : Also death and punishment is integral to game design because games are : competitive (you vs the computer or vs another player), and that : competition takes physical form (shooting), so death is just a win/lose : condition. Elsewhere in the thread I mentioned L4D, which in various modes implements a method for attacking and punishing players for mistakes that treats party death and checkpoint reloads as last resorts-- the game has other ways of punishing players. Halo only has one: death. : Gears of War is actually the game of the decade, and it's something Bungie : should have made after Halo 2 in a perfect world where Bungie stops after : one sequel then goes on to make a great new game. Usually I'm the one defending GoW but that's a branch I'm not walking out on. GoW is fun, and it has some features that I wish were in Halo games, and it's got some neat gimmicks and some enjoyable sequences. But if I had to choose between them, it's no contest. GoW's characters are so flat they make the Master Chief look like a Man of the Year; the caricatures are drawn so broadly they make Sgt. Johnson look like a detailed character study. The world is so uniformly grey (or brown, depending) it makes me wonder why they didn't just bite the bullet and make a black and white game. The game's complete lack of exploration is both frustrating and disappointing, and the story somehow manages to simultaneously be insultingly simplistic as well as overcomplicated, which is an impressive feat. No, I don't wish Bungie had made GoW instead of Halo 2 (which I consider the weakest of the Halo games to date). I do wish they had perhaps stuck to their 3rd person guns from the start. I understand Jason Jones was against it. It may be a shame he didn't win that battle-- although who knows, perhaps Halo 1 as a third person shooter wouldn't have been a hit. We'll never know.

Anger, Sadness & Envy Episode 11: Halo

Message Index

Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/9/09 9:26 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Leisandir	11/9/09 9:33 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/9/09 9:36 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	serpx	11/9/09 9:38 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	InnerRayg	11/9/09 9:39 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Devin Olsen	11/9/09 9:46 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Crab	11/9/09 9:49 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	SPARTAN 294	11/9/09 9:56 p.m.
agreein with this post *NM*	Hawaiian Pig	11/9/09 10:02 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	InnerRayg	11/10/09 2:05 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/10/09 2:12 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/10/09 2:49 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/10/09 3:01 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/10/09 3:23 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/10/09 1:43 p.m.
Completely agree	Metalingus627	11/10/09 2:18 p.m.
Re: Completely agree	Narcogen	11/10/09 11:55 p.m.
Re: Completely agree	Metalingus627	11/11/09 3:52 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/10/09 3:00 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/10/09 5:25 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/10/09 11:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/11/09 2:20 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/11/09 5:17 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/11/09 2:32 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	chris101b	11/11/09 12:43 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/12/09 6:01 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	chris101b	11/13/09 1:27 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	InnerRayg	11/10/09 6:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hunt3r	11/9/09 9:55 p.m.
agreein with this post *NM*	Hawaiian Pig	11/9/09 9:59 p.m.
and a P.S. :	Hunt3r	11/9/09 10:02 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ragashingo	11/9/09 10:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Leisandir	11/11/09 3:05 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/9/09 9:55 p.m.
agreein with this post *NM*	Hawaiian Pig	11/9/09 10:00 p.m.
Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	RC Master	11/10/09 8:08 p.m.
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	Hedgemony	11/10/09 8:16 p.m.
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	RC Master	11/10/09 8:22 p.m.
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	Hedgemony	11/10/09 8:33 p.m.
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	RC Master	11/10/09 8:48 p.m.
Re: Would be better if it was actual AI doing that	Vincent	11/11/09 2:47 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	kanbo	11/9/09 10:04 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	dizzy	11/9/09 10:18 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bernard Strauss	11/9/09 10:41 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v.	Hedgemony	11/9/09 11:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v.	Cody Miller	11/10/09 2:08 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach - my p.o.v.	SonofMacPhisto	11/10/09 9:24 a.m.
What have you started?	scarab	11/10/09 9:34 a.m.
Re: What have you started?	Louis Wu	11/10/09 9:38 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Captain Spark	11/9/09 10:29 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ragashingo	11/9/09 10:59 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Captain Spark	11/9/09 11:03 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/9/09 11:14 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hawaiian Pig	11/10/09 2:47 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Rosco-128	11/9/09 10:38 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/9/09 11:19 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Rosco-128	11/9/09 11:56 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/10/09 12:29 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bry	11/10/09 8:47 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/10/09 9:48 a.m.
EEK ODST *SP* ^^^^ *NM*	scarab	11/10/09 9:50 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Metalingus627	11/10/09 2:24 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	The BS Police	11/9/09 10:40 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cortana 5	11/9/09 10:42 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	The BS Police	11/9/09 10:49 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cortana 5	11/9/09 10:56 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hawaiian Pig	11/9/09 11:00 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hunt3r	11/9/09 11:20 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/9/09 11:24 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hedgemony	11/9/09 11:04 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	ArteenEsben	11/9/09 10:47 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/9/09 11:29 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	ArteenEsben	11/10/09 10:38 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/10/09 8:46 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ragashingo	11/9/09 10:48 p.m.
My Tip for Reach	ZaneZavin	11/9/09 11:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	bluerunner	11/10/09 9:45 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	11/10/09 10:50 a.m.
Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon/H1	Avateur	11/9/09 11:03 p.m.
speaking of reach...	crzymnky069	11/9/09 11:07 p.m.
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon	Narcogen	11/10/09 12:12 a.m.
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon	Avateur	11/10/09 12:40 a.m.
Reachathon?	Narcogen	11/10/09 3:11 a.m.
Re: Reachathon?	Cody Miller	11/10/09 12:41 p.m.
Re: Reachathon?	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/10/09 1:37 p.m.
Re: Reachathon?	Hedgemony	11/10/09 2:19 p.m.
Re: Reachathon?	Cody Miller	11/10/09 3:26 p.m.
Re: Reachathon?	Narcogen	11/11/09 12:08 a.m.
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon	Cody Miller	11/10/09 2:06 a.m.
Heresy!	Narcogen	11/10/09 3:30 a.m.
Re: Heresy!	Avateur	11/10/09 3:37 a.m.
Re: Heresy!	Narcogen	11/10/09 4:08 a.m.
Re: Heresy!	Cody Miller	11/10/09 12:26 p.m.
5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master	RC Master	11/10/09 9:16 p.m.
Re: Heresy!	Narcogen	11/11/09 12:12 a.m.
Re: Make Reach (and any new IP) more like Marathon	Bry	11/10/09 7:18 a.m.
Adjustable Auto Aim	ManKitten	11/9/09 11:31 p.m.
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim	crzymnky069	11/9/09 11:49 p.m.
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim	urk	11/10/09 10:32 a.m.
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim	ManKitten	11/10/09 1:17 p.m.
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim	Gravemind	11/11/09 1:00 p.m.
Re: Adjustable Auto Aim	RC Master	11/10/09 9:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	reprobate	11/10/09 12:26 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/10/09 12:35 a.m.
First Person View!	Cody Moore	11/10/09 1:14 a.m.
Re: First Person View!	psychophan7	11/10/09 2:23 a.m.
Third Person View!	Narcogen	11/10/09 3:37 a.m.
Re: Third Person View!	bluerunner	11/10/09 9:27 a.m.
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant...	Hedgemony	11/10/09 2:05 p.m.
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant...	Cody Miller	11/10/09 2:59 p.m.
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant...	Hedgemony	11/10/09 4:35 p.m.
Re: Third Person View! Longish rant...	General Vagueness	11/10/09 4:06 p.m.
Re: Third Person View!	psychophan7	11/10/09 2:28 p.m.
Re: First Person View!	ArteenEsben	11/10/09 10:51 a.m.
Re: First Person View!	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	11/10/09 10:58 a.m.
Re: First Person View!	ArteenEsben	11/10/09 11:20 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/10/09 2:08 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bungiez	11/10/09 1:09 a.m.
i wanna say this is kp *NM*	Hawaiian Pig	11/10/09 2:39 a.m.
Re: i wanna say this is kp	Louis Wu	11/10/09 8:30 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Someone	11/10/09 2:10 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/10/09 5:17 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bernard Strauss	11/10/09 4:12 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/10/09 5:04 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	DrDoctor	11/10/09 2:14 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bry	11/10/09 5:35 a.m.
Wort wort wort	Cody Moore	11/10/09 6:05 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	hyokin	11/10/09 10:25 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	Louis Wu	11/10/09 10:44 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	c0ld vengeance	11/10/09 12:36 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	Arkesane	11/10/09 12:47 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	padraig08	11/10/09 1:02 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	Avateur	11/10/09 12:47 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	c0ld vengeance	11/10/09 12:52 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	bluerunner	11/10/09 1:01 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	Louis Wu	11/10/09 1:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	FyreWulff	11/10/09 5:12 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach/Barrier Rant	psychophan7	11/10/09 2:02 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	urk	11/10/09 10:43 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/10/09 10:45 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	11/10/09 10:54 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/10/09 12:44 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/11/09 12:20 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hawaiian Pig	11/10/09 3:30 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/10/09 10:48 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/10/09 11:23 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	padraig08	11/10/09 1:20 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/11/09 8:34 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/11/09 8:44 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/11/09 9:58 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/11/09 9:59 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/11/09 10:20 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/11/09 12:47 p.m.
•No barriers or kill zones anywhere in the game.	c0ld vengeance	11/10/09 12:03 p.m.
Wow, beat me to it.	profhalo	11/10/09 1:13 p.m.
Re: Wow, beat me to it.	Cody Moore	11/10/09 4:59 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/10/09 1:26 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Matt	11/10/09 3:44 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/10/09 3:50 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	SonofMacPhisto	11/10/09 4:26 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/10/09 4:39 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	nash--housewares	11/10/09 4:50 p.m.
At-least-semi-valid jackassery. *NM*	Eiii	11/10/09 7:11 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	ManKitten	11/10/09 8:37 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/11/09 12:24 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Matt	11/11/09 12:04 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/11/09 12:36 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/11/09 1:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ducain	11/11/09 1:28 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	ManKitten	11/11/09 1:29 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/11/09 10:37 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hedgemony	11/11/09 10:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Matt	11/11/09 2:11 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/11/09 3:12 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/11/09 3:46 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hunt3r	11/11/09 3:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/11/09 10:43 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hawaiian Pig	11/12/09 3:16 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bry	11/12/09 3:39 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/12/09 4:55 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/12/09 12:38 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/12/09 12:45 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/12/09 12:54 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/12/09 1:05 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/12/09 1:22 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/13/09 1:20 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/13/09 2:54 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/13/09 4:16 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/13/09 2:53 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Mercury	11/13/09 4:03 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/13/09 11:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/14/09 12:57 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/12/09 2:24 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hedgemony	11/12/09 4:47 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Hunt3r	11/12/09 5:06 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 1:16 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/13/09 1:31 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 1:41 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Mercury	11/13/09 3:49 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 10:31 p.m.
Tips for arguments.	Mercury	11/12/09 5:41 p.m.
Re: Tips for arguments.	elessar787	11/13/09 1:29 a.m.
Re: Tips for arguments.	Mercury	11/13/09 3:35 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/12/09 6:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 1:35 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/13/09 5:56 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 8:36 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/13/09 10:59 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/14/09 1:03 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/14/09 2:39 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/14/09 4:02 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/14/09 1:47 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/14/09 2:43 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/14/09 3:58 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/14/09 4:26 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/14/09 5:13 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/14/09 5:38 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Vincent	11/14/09 5:49 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/14/09 7:14 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Louis Wu	11/14/09 7:19 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	RC Master	11/14/09 11:56 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/14/09 12:36 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/13/09 1:28 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	elessar787	11/13/09 1:39 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Leviathan	11/12/09 6:29 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Bry	11/12/09 1:24 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Captain Spark	11/12/09 1:25 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/13/09 8:11 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	11/13/09 8:26 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/12/09 9:48 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/12/09 11:09 a.m.
"Accessable hardcore games."	Gravemind	11/12/09 8:29 p.m.
Re: "Accessable hardcore games."	scarab	11/13/09 5:16 a.m.
Re: "Accessable hardcore games."	Gravemind	11/13/09 12:30 p.m.
Re: "Accessable hardcore games."	scarab	11/13/09 2:23 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/12/09 9:46 a.m.
Pure Win, As Usual *NM*	Narcogen	11/11/09 12:22 a.m.
Two things	rhubarb	11/10/09 7:34 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Gravemind	11/11/09 2:19 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Gravemind	11/12/09 12:52 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ducain	11/12/09 10:30 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	General Vagueness	11/12/09 11:05 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Mirel	11/12/09 12:06 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ducain	11/12/09 1:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	zofinda	11/12/09 1:27 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	DarkS7G	11/12/09 1:54 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Mirel	11/12/09 3:08 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Metalingus627	11/12/09 3:25 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/13/09 1:53 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	scarab	11/13/09 5:56 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 2:26 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/16/09 2:38 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/16/09 2:48 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 12:03 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Leviathan	11/16/09 3:16 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/16/09 6:11 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 11:55 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ibeechu	11/16/09 12:19 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Ibeechu	11/16/09 12:21 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Dani	11/16/09 12:27 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 12:35 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Dani	11/16/09 12:43 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 2:18 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	psychophan7	11/16/09 3:01 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	11/16/09 2:16 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 2:24 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/16/09 9:04 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/16/09 9:56 p.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Narcogen	11/17/09 5:30 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	Cody Miller	11/17/09 12:45 p.m.
Framerate and buying habits	Narcogen	11/18/09 5:51 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	sorahn	11/17/09 1:59 a.m.
60 seems unreal anyway. Keep it 45 if you ask me	Mirel	11/16/09 3:19 a.m.
Bad idea	Narcogen	11/16/09 6:08 a.m.
Re: Tips for Reach	FyreWulff	11/16/09 6:54 a.m.