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Re: this
Posted By: Anton1792 <anton_morgy@msn.com>	Date: 1/11/12 9:31 p.m.
In Response To: Re: this (Stephen L. (SoundEffect)) : It was best described in the beginning of The Flood novel. I'll quote a small : passage: "However, none of these things were at the forefront of : Ship Master Orna ’Fulsamee’s mind as he stood at the center of his : destroyer’s control room and stared at the data projections which appeared : to float in front of him. One showed the ring world, Halo. Near that, a : tiny arrow tracked the interloper’s course. The second projection : displayed a schematic titled HUMAN ATTACK SHIP, TYPE C-11. A third : scrolled a constant flow of targeting data and sensor readouts. : : He fought a moment of revulsion. That these filthy primates somehow merited : an actual name—let alone names for their inferior constructs—galled him to : his core. It was perverse. Names implied legitimacy, and the vermin : deserved only extermination. The humans had “names” for his own : kind—“Elites”—as well as the lesser races of the Covenant: “Jackals,” : “Grunts,” “Hunters.” The appalling temerity of the filthy creatures, that : they would dare name his people with their harsh, barbaric tongue, was : beyond the pale. He paused, and regained his composure." : : This was some of the justification that Elites hadn't been seen prior to : Reach. Humans were vermin to be ground under, not really true : lifeforms...certainly not personally worthy of the attention of an : honorable race such as the Sangheili. : : I can see the Elites (as the military arm of the Covenant) using the Grunts : and Jackals as ground teams (as we witnessed in The Fall of Reach) both on : Lambda Serpentis and Sigma Octanus. : : I see that the rise of the "Demons" in more and more successful : ground engagements (and in fact having killed perhaps the first : human-encountered Hunters on Sigma Octanus) made the stakes high enough to : warrant the inclusion of Elite ground commanders at Reach, and of course : something more highly prized, the Halo ring. : : This is extrapolation on what we were given in the first two novels and the : first game. Right, I can sort of see this. I mean, it is not the strongest evidence for a species wide opinion on something, but if we were to say that Orna is being used as a mouthpiece here for the rest of his people then it may make sense from the opinion that the canon is whole in and of itself between the contributions from Bungie and whoever else Microsoft hires to churn out more novels. (And the idea that they already had this fictional universe semi-planned out) The Flood was released just over a year before Halo 2 was released, and when Halo 2 came out we would already have conflicting messages regarding this, if we are to make extrapolations of an entire culture from one or two individuals: Orna's rather strikingly misanthropic diatribe and then the stuff that Bungie decided to include in Halo 2's Limited Edition Content booklet. In that was essentially the polar opposite of what Deitz put in the Flood with Orna's dialogue there. For the retcon in the Elite's date of encounter, I am sure that this first happened in Ghosts of Onyx back in 2006 when Kurt watched as Alpha Company were wiped out by Covenant reinforcements, Elites being observed among them. Tom also fought them during Torpedo as well. So it appears that there was already alterations to this apparent personality before any indications of a retcon became apparent; two conflicting ideas: One from a third party author and another coming straight from Bungie themselves. Someone else mentioned Contact Harvest changing the date of encounter of the Brutes from 2552 to 2525, and this retcon was implemented by a Bungie Employee; no less, one of the people who essentially co-wrote the Halo story. It sort of seems to me that Bungie had different ideas about how the story should develop than what other authors had already done at the time. Basically, it would seem that either the retcon was in no way affiliated with a change in the Elite's mentality (They could quite easily make the retcon fit with Orna's mentality by having the Elites mention that they love slaughtering Humans with their bare hands or something) as alterations were made before the retcon. And/Or that the Elites really did not have an actual canonical personality at that point; it was all just one shots. The two changes (And I don't think the personality change is really a change) appear separate. Think about Halo 3 for a moment. If this original personality of the Elites was similar to that of Orna's, an opinion that holds the Human adversary to be so beneath then, and so disgusting, that they are not even worthy to kill in person but only through "lower life forms" like Grunts, this makes Halo 3's co-operation between the two species silly. They would not even stoop so low to kill a Human with their own hands, but now they will fight alongside them? These early notions seem to run plain contrary to Bungie's very own plans for the game's story. For the Spartans to rise up and grab the Elite's attentions from fighting so well indicates that the UNSC at large has pretty much been failing with trying to take on Grunts and Jackals on the ground, otherwise the Spartans have nothing to contrast against. We all saw how Grunts and Jackals behave in battle from Halo CE; slow, unorganized, undisciplined. For the UNSC to struggle with this is silly. How well do you see Grunts, for instance, piloting a lance of Wraith tanks or flying in a Banshee formation having to fight Longsword fighters tearing across the sky, knowing how easily they panic? Putting the Elites into the war gave a bit of dignity back to the Halo story in my opinion. Even for Orna to recognize that his species are commonly referred to as "Elites" by Humans is incongruous. Humanity, in this version of the story, has only really encountered Elites a few weeks ago. Not really enough time for something like that to fully form and circulate on both sides of the conflict. The nomaclature of "Elite" sort of implies a familiarity to the UNSC forces. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think that there was no such thing as a "Halo Story Bible" and that it was made up on the go.

Message Index

343I and the future of Halo.	ElzarTheBam	1/10/12 6:16 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	DEEP NNN	1/10/12 8:04 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	FoolsRun	1/10/12 8:44 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	General Vagueness	1/10/12 4:21 p.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/10/12 5:29 p.m.
this	davidfuchs	1/10/12 5:32 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/10/12 6:53 p.m.
Re: this	Quirel	1/10/12 11:16 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 6:25 a.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/11/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 12:03 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/11/12 12:11 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 1:08 p.m.
Re: this	Anton1792	1/11/12 3:12 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 5:13 p.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/11/12 6:29 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 6:52 p.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/11/12 7:28 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 8:08 p.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/12/12 6:15 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/12/12 6:44 a.m.
Re: this	scarab	1/12/12 2:49 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/12/12 3:48 p.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/12/12 4:05 p.m.
Re: this	scarab	1/12/12 5:23 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/13/12 10:23 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/13/12 11:14 a.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/13/12 12:05 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/12/12 5:16 p.m.
Re: this	Anton1792	1/11/12 9:31 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/11/12 10:23 p.m.
Re: this	Anton1792	1/12/12 5:27 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/12/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/15/12 4:47 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/15/12 5:29 p.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/15/12 7:13 p.m.
Re: this	General Vagueness	1/16/12 12:35 a.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/16/12 5:38 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/16/12 8:17 a.m.
Re: this	Leisandir	1/16/12 8:45 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/16/12 9:07 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/16/12 4:33 p.m.
Re: this	Bry	1/16/12 10:31 a.m.
Re: this	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/16/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	General Vagueness	1/11/12 11:10 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	FoolsRun	1/11/12 7:25 a.m.
halomultiplayer.isnotcanon.net	scarab	1/11/12 7:31 a.m.
Re: halomultiplayer.isnotcanon.net	FoolsRun	1/11/12 7:53 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	General Vagueness	1/11/12 11:43 a.m.
Re: 343I and the future of Halo.	Flynn J Taggart	1/11/12 1:20 p.m.
the comments they're responding to	kidtsunami	1/10/12 4:12 p.m.
The one thing 343i needs to do:	Azo 'Galvat	1/11/12 12:03 a.m.