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Re: we'll have to hedge it
Posted By: uberfoop <atkinso2@seattleu.edu>Date: 12/4/11 7:17 p.m.

In Response To: we'll have to hedge it (kidtsunami)


: and agree to disagree. I think that you're right and that human error is
: often time the most important differentiation in live sports. I just also
: think that games that completely eliminate the "gambling" that I
: believe is inherent is most live sports games, lose some of the soul
: that makes these games great.

I don't think they eliminate that "gambling"; they simply place it on the gamepad, or the common sense and communication of their 'hog driver, and not on the actual throw of an arm or real-world position of a receiver.

Concession: Though I wouldn't argue that there's always a clear solution to a lot of the underlying necessities of good gameplay for a certain game that would eliminate randomness entirely; I understand why various forms of shot spread exist, for instance, and I certainly can't think of a truly decent nonrandom alternative.

(Damage dependant on shot distance might work, but it might also be obnoxious and bizarre.)

: While the effect of "bloom" on a lacrosse player's shot is
: obviously dependent on their skill, every player still gambles in his head
: every time he decides how much time he'll take to shoot and how that will
: affect his accuracy. It is awesome to consider all the pro's and con's
: when you shoot, it's exhilarating and something I feel is a core part of
: sport. I feel the bloom they've implemented appropriately adds that
: feeling/concept into the sandbox.

Fair.

Though I think an ideal solution would be a game that naturally lets that happen based on player inputs. For instance, when DMRing in Reach, I've noticed that I occasionally gauge my shot times not just on bloom but also on when I personally feel comfortable taking the shot, which under some circumstances isn't always max-RoF for me. I think this sort of thing is more direct and natural than the arbitrary timing and chance response; it's more about when the player feels comfortable taking the shot than when the game feels comfortable about the player taking their shot.

: Lastly, I've yet to see anything where someone has shown a video of this
: imbalance affecting the outcome of a game. That would be a critical part
: of this argument, however all of this is based off of feeling. The burden
: of proof is on the accusers and I would love to see a montage of some pro
: getting trounced by people getting a lucky bloom spam shot.

Yep. I totally agree. :)

I actually don't have a huge issue with bloom as implemented in Reach at the moment*. I don't think it's necessarily beneficial, but Reach was built around it in a way that seems to work. I've been arguing somewhat hypothetically.

*Though at some ranges, the proper firing cadence of the nerfle just annoys me.

: After your next response, I'll probably cut it out, because while this back
: and forth has been civil and actually pretty great on both sides, I
: understand that it's best for the forum for this to go quiet soon.

Okay.


Message Index




Replies:

MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?RVideo 12/2/11 7:45 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Spec ops Grunt 12/2/11 8:18 p.m.
           Whoa now!!!bryan newman 12/2/11 8:57 p.m.
                 Re: Whoa now!!!JDQuackers 12/2/11 9:32 p.m.
                       Re: Whoa now!!!bryan newman 12/3/11 12:24 a.m.
                             Re: Whoa now!!!RVideo 12/3/11 1:05 a.m.
                                   Re: Whoa now!!!Bryan Newman 12/3/11 4:35 p.m.
                                         Re: Whoa now!!!Bry 12/3/11 5:06 p.m.
                                               Not quite trueBryan newman 12/3/11 5:41 p.m.
                                                     Re: Not quite trueBry 12/3/11 6:38 p.m.
                                                           That really depends.uberfoop 12/3/11 6:46 p.m.
                                                                 Err, wait.uberfoop 12/3/11 6:48 p.m.
                                                           MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.bryan newman 12/3/11 7:42 p.m.
                                                                 "Casual Weapons"Spec ops Grunt 12/3/11 8:07 p.m.
                                                                       I'm not trying to be insulting.bryan newman 12/3/11 8:29 p.m.
                                                                             Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 8:33 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.bryan newman 12/3/11 8:41 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 8:45 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.bryan newman 12/3/11 8:47 p.m.
                                                                                         Pro = paid. Amateur = not paid.Gravemind 12/5/11 4:12 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.Bry 12/3/11 9:12 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: I'm not trying to be insulting.SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 10:18 p.m.
                                                                                               OopsSonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 10:24 p.m.
                                                                                         It's my gamerzone...RC Master 12/4/11 8:10 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: It's my gamerzone...Bry 12/4/11 9:57 a.m.
                                                                 Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Bry 12/3/11 8:24 p.m.
                                                                       Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 8:32 p.m.
                                                                       Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.bryan newman 12/3/11 8:38 p.m.
                                                                             Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Bry 12/3/11 9:06 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.bryan newman 12/3/11 9:21 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Leviathan 12/3/11 9:39 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.bryan newman 12/3/11 9:56 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Leviathan 12/3/11 10:09 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.uberfoop 12/3/11 10:44 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.ZaneZavin 12/4/11 2:50 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Bryan Newman 12/4/11 10:03 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.ZaneZavin 12/4/11 10:46 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Bryan newman 12/4/11 12:21 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: MLG is not a requirement, merely a perk.Bry 12/3/11 10:02 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Hey NewmanHedgemony 12/3/11 9:43 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Hey Newmanbryan newman 12/3/11 9:53 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Hey NewmanHedgemony 12/3/11 10:14 p.m.
                                                                                   MLG: Hire Hedge.Leviathan 12/3/11 10:29 p.m.
                                                                                   Thispadraig08 12/3/11 11:26 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: ThisHyokin 12/4/11 11:10 a.m.
                                                                                               Sourcedpadraig08 12/4/11 2:13 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: SourcedHyokin 12/4/11 9:10 p.m.
                             Re: Whoa now!!!JDQuackers 12/3/11 7:37 a.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?davidfuchs 12/2/11 9:13 p.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?SIX min WHISTLE 12/2/11 10:21 p.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Azo 'Galvat 12/3/11 12:11 a.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Pkmnrulz240 12/2/11 9:27 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?DEEP NNN 12/2/11 9:42 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/2/11 9:53 p.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?SonGoharotto 12/2/11 10:30 p.m.
                       Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/2/11 10:37 p.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?DEEP NNN 12/3/11 5:54 a.m.
                                   Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/3/11 11:15 a.m.
                                         Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?DEEP NNN 12/3/11 2:40 p.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?JDQuackers 12/3/11 7:49 a.m.
                                   Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/3/11 11:00 a.m.
                                         Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?JDQuackers 12/3/11 5:26 p.m.
                                         Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Spec ops Grunt 12/3/11 8:11 p.m.
                                               Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Flynn J Taggart 12/4/11 5:24 a.m.
                                                     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Spec ops Grunt 12/4/11 2:20 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/2/11 9:50 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?davidfuchs 12/2/11 10:26 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?urk 12/3/11 1:13 a.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/3/11 1:45 a.m.
                       Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?urk 12/3/11 10:19 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Azo 'Galvat 12/3/11 10:31 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/3/11 11:30 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?padraig08 12/3/11 2:32 p.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Spec ops Grunt 12/3/11 2:15 a.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?FyreWulff 12/3/11 4:25 a.m.
                       Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?GhaleonEB 12/3/11 8:11 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?FyreWulff 12/3/11 8:36 a.m.
                       Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Schooly D 12/3/11 10:44 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Joony Joon 12/3/11 11:38 a.m.
                                   exactlykidtsunami 12/4/11 4:26 p.m.
                                         Re: exactlyuberfoop 12/4/11 4:51 p.m.
                                               I think that it's a systematic adjustmentkidtsunami 12/4/11 5:23 p.m.
                                                     Re: I think that it's a systematic adjustmentuberfoop 12/4/11 5:44 p.m.
                                                           Re: I think that it's a systematic adjustmentkidtsunami 12/4/11 5:55 p.m.
                                                                 Re: I think that it's a systematic adjustmentuberfoop 12/4/11 6:27 p.m.
                                                                       we'll have to hedge itkidtsunami 12/4/11 6:46 p.m.
                                                                             Re: we'll have to hedge ituberfoop 12/4/11 7:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: I think that it's a systematic adjustmentAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 12/4/11 7:13 p.m.
                                                                 Re: I think that it's a systematic adjustmentuberfoop 12/4/11 7:31 p.m.
                                               I forgot to saykidtsunami 12/4/11 5:24 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Overdoziz 12/2/11 10:37 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Pkmnrulz240 12/2/11 11:41 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Leviathan 12/3/11 12:28 a.m.
                 Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?bluerunner 12/3/11 2:26 a.m.
                       Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 10:20 a.m.
                             Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?ArteenEsben 12/4/11 6:50 a.m.
                                   Twilight Sparkle?RC Master 12/4/11 8:40 a.m.
                                         Re: Twilight Sparkle?Ibeechu 12/4/11 9:07 a.m.
                                               Horsemeat? *NM*Quirel 12/4/11 10:08 a.m.
                                               Re: Twilight Sparkle?Leviathan 12/4/11 12:06 p.m.
                                                     =Othebruce0 12/4/11 6:47 p.m.
                                                           Re: =OLeviathan 12/5/11 4:32 p.m.
                                                     O_OHotIcePhoenix 12/4/11 11:19 p.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Quirel 12/3/11 1:02 a.m.
           Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?SonofMacPhisto 12/3/11 11:08 a.m.
     Adding my vote to the "Don't Care" column. *NM*Phoenix_9286 12/2/11 11:15 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Flynn J Taggart 12/3/11 1:54 a.m.
     So I watched quite a bit...RC Master 12/3/11 5:52 a.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?NartFOpc 12/3/11 12:23 p.m.
     Re: MLG and Halo: Is this the end of the road?Kalamari 12/3/11 2:08 p.m.
     Bloom is not the blue shellkidtsunami 12/4/11 4:47 p.m.



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