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This is just dripping :)
Posted By: vector40 <vector40@aol.com>	Date: 11/29/01 12:00 a.m.
In Response To: Bungie is different (Anonymous Rex) : That's Soell's job, Louis. PR. I'm pretty cynical about the buyout and : disagreed with your assessment in the review that they did it because they : wanted a stable hardware platform to work from. Maybe I'm wrong about : this, but I would bet Vector's small pig that it was money and the : opportunity to publish a game with the backing of the largest software : company in the world. If you're a writer, you want people to read your : work. If your game designer, you want people to play your games. What : better way to access your audience than to go with a publisher who has : distribution muscle? We all have our pleasant little opinions. Mine is that they wanted the financial stability of being able to spend all kinds of time painstakingly crafting the kind of games they like to... well, painstakingly craft, without having to worry about paying people and buying meals. No particular theory, of course, is wholly better. : There are people : - sociologists and business theorists - who have explored this. : Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the literature and couldn't talk : intelligently about it. I just feel it. We honestly don't need the literature. Your opinion will do. : I said I was cynical, but that doesn't mean that I hold it against them. I : wouldn't, for example, term it a sellout. As I said before, I felt bad : about it when it was announced, but if I was in their shoes, I'd probably : have done the same thing. I knew as soon as Marathon came out that they : would eventually move to a bigger market than what Mac could offer them, : but rather than forget their roots, they continue developing for the Mac : and that's pretty cool in my books. : I submit that Bungie is largely responsible for my expectations and I'm not : the only one who had those expectations or who thinks this way, as : evidenced by reactions in this forum and elsewhere. You, yourself, have : said as much. : There's a reason why Bungie (and many others including Apple) do not give : projected release dates for products in the pipeline and that is so that : they don't create false expectations and then disappoint when they can't : deliver on them. There is no benefit accruing to the developer in that : scenario. There is a benefit that accrues as a result of creating hype : around a product, albeit a short term one. It's disingenuous though, and I : guess I held (hold) Bungie to a higher standard than that. : I wouldn't expect the same from Sierra, because to me they are a faceless : company. I'm not much of a gamer, as I said before, but I religiously buy : Bungie games, read Bungie news, care enough to engage in rants about how : disppointed I am in a fan forum if they disappoint me, etc. I do that : because to me, Bungie is different. I've also used a Mac since 1984 (not : the same one) and I would put Apple and Bungie in the same category. : Obviously, I consider my relationship with companies like Bungie and Apple : to be different than my relationship with Microsoft and Sierra and the Gap : and McDonald's. I have higher expectations of the those companies and : because I do I'm a more valuable customer to them. The obverse of that is : that those companies, because they have created these relationships and : leverage them for their own business success, need to recognize that their : relationship with their customers is a very special one. : I think it boils down to trust. Why would I trust a company like Bungie and : not Sierra or Apple and not Microsoft? I think it's because they have : asked, implicitly, for that trust by engendering a more personal : relationship with their public. Of course, with any trust comes : responsibility. You have a very, very interesting concept of "relationships." Are you saying that Bungie is, essentially, providing a "service" in this sense? We are loyal, and in return, they need to give us something? "With any trust comes responsibility." Honestly, this really doesn't work. We're not bartering—we're friends. Let me lay this out. © Here is Bungie Bungie makes games. ™ Here are gamers Gamers play games © makes a game (call it ?) ™ play ? ™ like ? In the course of liking ?, ™ begin to go deeper, discovering the company that developed ?. They discover ©. ©, they learn, makes great game. Not only that, but they're really cool, kibitzing with fans, holding parties, making fun of their fans, etc. etc. They start to like ©. They'll probably buy ©'s future games. They chat with ©, insult ©, borrow money from ©, etc. --- That is ALL. We like Bungie, because they're cool guys and great developers. Bungie (well, I assume), likes us back. That's called a friendship. Remember kindergarten? Bungie is not OBLIGATED to do anything. There is no legal contract, nor even any sort of implied financial one. They don't go and send us viruses or spit dirty things at us, because they like us. Probably, true, there's the fact that being nasty would alienate the fanbase — but do you really think that's why? Why do you not, at this moment, step out of your house, rob and kill a man? Is it because it's agains the law and you will be punished? Not primarily. There's that, of course, but before you even get to that step, your moral compass gets in the way. Even if Bungie was the nastiest company in the world, people would still buy their games if they were good. You think a gaming "class" that download warez, burn games, and speak in l33t are going to care that the company that made something is uncool? There may be business involved in our relationship with Bungie — but it doesn't get to that point. Being Bungie and practicing good business happen, in this case, to be one and the same. We're not having a joint business venture here — we're having fun. Honest.

Message Index

How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Anonymous Rex	11/27/01 12:46 p.m.
Get over yourself.	Nijhazer	11/27/01 1:08 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Riggs	11/27/01 1:09 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Apollo	11/27/01 2:51 p.m.
What demos? *NM*	Andrew Nagy	11/27/01 3:00 p.m.
Re: What demos?	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 3:48 p.m.
Re: What demos?	Andrew Nagy	11/27/01 4:35 p.m.
Re: What demos?	Apollo	11/27/01 8:28 p.m.
Re: What demos?	Ferrex (Dead)	11/28/01 12:36 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	vector40	11/27/01 8:09 p.m.
I'm keeping it simple...	Djof@School	11/27/01 1:20 p.m.
Re: I'm keeping it simple...	vector40	11/27/01 8:11 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	mnemesis	11/27/01 1:24 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Caerdwyn	11/27/01 1:31 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Ferrex (Dead)	11/27/01 1:52 p.m.
well said *NM*	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 2:01 p.m.
Thanks for replying	Anonymous Rex	11/27/01 2:42 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	Andrew Nagy	11/27/01 2:56 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	Ferrex (Dead)	11/27/01 3:58 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	Anonymous Rex	11/27/01 5:18 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	Cunbelin@Work	11/27/01 6:10 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	kayas	11/27/01 6:50 p.m.
One in the eye, Louis.	vector40	11/27/01 8:37 p.m.
rotfl!	Louis Wu	11/27/01 8:52 p.m.
Re: rotfl!	vector40	11/27/01 9:25 p.m.
Re: rotfl!	Louis Wu	11/27/01 9:29 p.m.
OMG!! OMG NOE!!!!! (NT)	MakeMineRed	11/28/01 6:48 a.m.
Re: OMG!! OMG NOE!!!!! (NT)	vector40	11/28/01 7:15 p.m.
Re: OMG!! OMG NOE!!!!! (NT)	Cunbelin The Spoiler	11/29/01 1:40 a.m.
Re: OMG!! OMG NOE!!!!! (NT)	MakeMineRed	11/29/01 6:58 a.m.
Re: OMG!! OMG NOE!!!!! (NT)	vector40	11/29/01 7:06 p.m.
September (end of) *NM*	Louis Wu	11/29/01 7:12 p.m.
Thanks. *NM*	vector40	11/29/01 7:19 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	vector40	11/27/01 8:30 p.m.
Re: Thanks for replying	vector40	11/27/01 8:18 p.m.
bunch of kids...	Marty the Elder	11/27/01 4:16 p.m.
Re: bunch of kids...	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 6:22 p.m.
Re: bunch of kids...	Achronos	11/28/01 4:14 p.m.
I'm amazed...	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 2:12 p.m.
Re: I'm amazed...	no7orious	11/27/01 5:07 p.m.
Re: I'm amazed...	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 6:45 p.m.
That sounds about right... cool! *NM*	no7orious	11/27/01 7:37 p.m.
Re: I'm amazed...	James Isaak	11/27/01 8:18 p.m.
Re: I'm amazed...	*Ar-Isildur of *WP*	11/27/01 11:30 p.m.
Stop the presses.	Frost	11/27/01 2:35 p.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	Anonymous Rex	11/27/01 2:47 p.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	vector40	11/27/01 8:35 p.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	Anonymous Rex	11/27/01 11:13 p.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	vector40	11/27/01 11:30 p.m.
Show cats	Anonymous Rex	11/28/01 12:35 a.m.
Re: Show cats	vector40	11/28/01 7:13 p.m.
Re: Show cats	Anonymous Rex	11/28/01 9:05 p.m.
Re: Oh really!?	kayas	11/28/01 10:07 p.m.
Re: Show cats	vector40	11/28/01 10:09 p.m.
Re: Show cats	Hackerhitman13	11/28/01 7:17 p.m.
Re: Show cats	Anonymous Rex	11/28/01 8:41 p.m.
Re: Show cats	Hackerhitman13	11/28/01 11:24 p.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	Louis Wu	11/28/01 5:28 a.m.
Re: Stop the presses.	Frost	11/28/01 4:47 p.m.
Louis is much better at this than I am. *NM*	vector40	11/28/01 7:14 p.m.
Bungie is different	Anonymous Rex	11/28/01 11:09 p.m.
This is just dripping :)	vector40	11/29/01 12:00 a.m.
Bungie is different	Anonymous Rex	11/29/01 2:56 a.m.
Re: Bungie is different	vector40	11/29/01 7:02 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Cunbelin@Work	11/27/01 5:16 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Impact	11/27/01 9:58 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	Steve Campbell	11/27/01 10:24 p.m.
if you would...	ONEi	11/28/01 12:06 p.m.
Re: if you would...	Steve	11/28/01 12:29 p.m.
Re: if you would...	vector40	11/28/01 7:01 p.m.
Re: How to Keep Loyal Fans Happy	HeavyMetalMachine	11/28/01 4:06 p.m.