unilinear?


	/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/

unilinear?

Posted By: MrHen Date: 11/21/06 4:49 a.m.
In Response To: Re: well, obviously (Forrest of B.org)

: All assuming multilinear time of course. In unilinear time the whole scenario
: would be impossible unless somehow I was predetermined to return my
: younger self to his own time frame; though in that case I would have
: already had memories of having been kidnapped by my future self when I was
: 10.
Unilinear... hee...
And I disagree with your last statement. If you returned yourself things would change again and you could probably find a copy of yourself somewhere with the memory of being kidnapped. The memories would not *suddenly* appear.
The following may not make much sense, either because it is weird, or because I am wrong. Hopefully it will make sense... but it may bruise the brain.
Being kidnapped by your future you may inspire you to time-travel, thus seemingly causing the first event. But this is a misconception. At this point, there are all sorts of messy particulars to sort out, which is easiest by labeling the different yous:
You #1: The "original" you, the one that time-travels backward and kidnaps yourself. This you has never been kidnapped and has no memories of it.
You #2: Young you, the first you that was kidnapped. Brought to the "future", shown how time-travel works, and then "sent" back to invent time-travel. When You #2 grows up (remember his kidnapping) he time-travels back to kidnap himself. But he has to beat You #1, because You #1 is about to kidnap him.
You #3: The you that You #2 kidnaps. The cycle is about to repeat, but there is a catch: You #1 has now never kidnapped anyone because You #2 beat him to You #3.
But this is a misconception. You #1 did kidnap You #2 which is obvious because You #2 remembers it. You #1 caused a split in your timeline which is why we think of You #1 and You #2 as different people. They basically are different people, had different childhoods, different memories, and the only reason they are related at all is biologically.
You #2 grows up with the memory of being kidnapped and then kidnaps himself causing another split: now we have You #3. All of the events of all three of your childhoods did happen and there are potentially three of you running around. If You #1, You #2, and You #3 all showed up at the same time they could discuss their childhoods and all three would be different. The conclusion is that You #1 did kidnap You #2 and You #2 did kidnap You #3.
And all of this happened in a unilinear timeline. The illusion of a paradox is there because we assume that when You #2 interrupted You #1 to kidnap You #3 preventing him from kidnapping You #2, You #2's future does not exist because You #1 never kidnapped him.
But You #1 has already kidnapped him and so all of the knowledge and experience exists and You #2 has become an entity to himself.
The real paradox is the time-travel itself, not the repercussions of the time-travel.
The reason it is difficult is because our language assumes things about time. All of our words and sentence possess an assumption that we cannot control time. Saying something like, "then You #2 interrupted You #1 and kidnapped You #3" does not make sense because of how we usually think about the words "then" and "interrupted".
Identity also poses a problem. All three versions of you are different and really have nothing to do with each other.
Note: Of course, this is all hypothetical. Also, I love this stuff, so I may have skipped something in there.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Plotline question concerning Infinity Icarus 11/15/06 12:18 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 1:10 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity RyokoTK 11/15/06 1:43 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:51 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:59 p.m.

time travel and plots in general MrHen 11/15/06 6:08 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general patrick 11/15/06 6:48 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 7:57 p.m.

more on plot MrHen 11/16/06 5:07 a.m.

Re: more on plot Document 11/18/06 11:39 a.m.

I would not know. MrHen 11/18/06 12:33 p.m.

Re: I would not know. Document 11/18/06 12:44 p.m.

oh, okay. :) MrHen 11/18/06 3:37 p.m.

Re: oh, okay. :) thermoplyae 11/18/06 7:18 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general LegacyTyphoon 11/17/06 12:39 a.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/17/06 1:04 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel MrHen 11/17/06 2:51 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/20/06 11:01 a.m.

well, obviously MrHen 11/20/06 12:17 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Frungi 11/20/06 5:01 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Forrest of B.org 11/20/06 6:52 p.m.

unilinear? MrHen 11/21/06 4:49 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Frungi 11/21/06 5:49 a.m.

gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 6:21 a.m.

Re: gah, no... Frungi 11/21/06 7:41 a.m.

Re: gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 8:25 a.m.

Hypothetical question Frungi 11/21/06 1:45 p.m.

Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/22/06 4:53 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/22/06 4:24 p.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 7:52 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/23/06 9:11 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 4:04 p.m.

Re: gah, no... Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:19 p.m.

there are no time-loops MrHen 11/22/06 4:21 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:07 p.m.

Something is wrong... MrHen 11/22/06 4:35 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 9:09 a.m.

this is awesome, I love this stuff MrHen 11/22/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 11:25 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:00 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 2:41 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 5:48 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/23/06 4:58 a.m.

ha, nice MrHen 11/23/06 8:05 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 9/18/07 11:06 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:28 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 4:07 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 6:05 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 11/22/06 7:14 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 7:31 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/23/06 12:37 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff *LINK* Frungi 11/25/06 1:15 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/26/06 10:04 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/26/06 6:30 p.m.

timeline == ? MrHen 11/23/06 8:09 a.m.

agreement :) MrHen 11/23/06 8:00 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Aachim 11/22/06 1:24 p.m.

returning to time travel Pfhorever 11/23/06 10:13 a.m.

Re: returning to time travel Frungi 11/23/06 10:43 a.m.

Re: well, obviously Document 11/21/06 10:30 a.m.

Re: time travel Forrest of B.org 11/17/06 3:47 p.m.

Re: time travel legacytyphoon 11/17/06 8:29 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 9:17 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:07 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/19/06 5:59 a.m.

I disagree *LINK* MrHen 11/18/06 6:55 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Frungi 11/21/06 7:48 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:26 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Vid Boi 11/16/06 6:18 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general D-M.A. 11/16/06 8:38 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 2:05 p.m.

*cough* spam *cough* MrHen 11/15/06 3:35 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity SnowCrash 11/15/06 4:12 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 5:03 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity kyjel 11/15/06 5:06 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 6:14 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Document 11/16/06 10:10 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity REB 11/16/06 7:31 p.m.

REB!!! *NM* ukimalefu 11/16/06 8:24 p.m.

Re: Hey, ukimalefu! *NM* REB 11/17/06 9:41 a.m.

MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) *NM* thermoplyae 11/16/06 11:27 p.m.

WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/17/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: WMaiD kyjel 11/17/06 10:28 a.m.

It was a joke. >. *NM* MrHen 11/17/06 2:49 p.m.

Re: Got It ;-) *NM* REB 11/17/06 3:07 p.m.

WMaiD *LINK* Blayne 11/17/06 11:24 a.m.

Re: WMaiD SnowCrash 11/18/06 10:31 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Blayne 11/21/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/21/06 10:50 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Frungi 11/21/06 7:09 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: Unilinear... hee... : And I disagree with your last statement. If you returned yourself things : would change again and you could probably find a copy of yourself : somewhere with the memory of being kidnapped. The memories would not : *suddenly* appear. : The following may not make much sense, either because it is weird, or because : I am wrong. Hopefully it will make sense... but it may bruise the brain. : Being kidnapped by your future you may inspire you to time-travel, thus : seemingly causing the first event. But this is a misconception. At this : point, there are all sorts of messy particulars to sort out, which is : easiest by labeling the different yous: You #1: The "original" : you, the one that time-travels backward and kidnaps yourself. This you has : never been kidnapped and has no memories of it. : You #2: Young you, the first you that was kidnapped. Brought to the : "future", shown how time-travel works, and then "sent" : back to invent time-travel. When You #2 grows up (remember his kidnapping) : he time-travels back to kidnap himself. But he has to beat You #1, because : You #1 is about to kidnap him. : You #3: The you that You #2 kidnaps. The cycle is about to repeat, but there : is a catch: You #1 has now never kidnapped anyone because You #2 beat him : to You #3. : But this is a misconception. You #1 did kidnap You #2 which is obvious : because You #2 remembers it. You #1 caused a split in your timeline which : is why we think of You #1 and You #2 as different people. They basically : are different people, had different childhoods, different memories, and : the only reason they are related at all is biologically. : You #2 grows up with the memory of being kidnapped and then kidnaps himself : causing another split: now we have You #3. All of the events of all three : of your childhoods did happen and there are potentially three of you : running around. If You #1, You #2, and You #3 all showed up at the same : time they could discuss their childhoods and all three would be different. : The conclusion is that You #1 did kidnap You #2 and You #2 did kidnap : You #3. : And all of this happened in a unilinear timeline. The illusion of a paradox : is there because we assume that when You #2 interrupted You #1 to kidnap : You #3 preventing him from kidnapping You #2, You #2's future does not : exist because You #1 never kidnapped him. : But You #1 has already kidnapped him and so all of the knowledge and : experience exists and You #2 has become an entity to himself. : The real paradox is the time-travel itself, not the repercussions of the : time-travel. : The reason it is difficult is because our language assumes things about time. : All of our words and sentence possess an assumption that we cannot control : time. Saying something like, "then You #2 interrupted You #1 and : kidnapped You #3" does not make sense because of how we usually think : about the words "then" and "interrupted". : Identity also poses a problem. All three versions of you are different and : really have nothing to do with each other. : Note: Of course, this is all hypothetical. Also, I love this stuff, so I may : have skipped something in there.

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Plotline question concerning Infinity	Icarus	11/15/06 12:18 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 1:10 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	RyokoTK	11/15/06 1:43 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:51 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:59 p.m.
time travel and plots in general	MrHen	11/15/06 6:08 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	patrick	11/15/06 6:48 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 7:57 p.m.
more on plot	MrHen	11/16/06 5:07 a.m.
Re: more on plot	Document	11/18/06 11:39 a.m.
I would not know.	MrHen	11/18/06 12:33 p.m.
Re: I would not know.	Document	11/18/06 12:44 p.m.
oh, okay. :)	MrHen	11/18/06 3:37 p.m.
Re: oh, okay. :)	thermoplyae	11/18/06 7:18 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	LegacyTyphoon	11/17/06 12:39 a.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/17/06 1:04 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	MrHen	11/17/06 2:51 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/20/06 11:01 a.m.
well, obviously	MrHen	11/20/06 12:17 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Frungi	11/20/06 5:01 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Forrest of B.org	11/20/06 6:52 p.m.
unilinear?	MrHen	11/21/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Frungi	11/21/06 5:49 a.m.
gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 6:21 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	Frungi	11/21/06 7:41 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 8:25 a.m.
Hypothetical question	Frungi	11/21/06 1:45 p.m.
Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/22/06 4:53 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/22/06 4:24 p.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 7:52 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/23/06 9:11 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 4:04 p.m.
Re: gah, no...	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:19 p.m.
there are no time-loops	MrHen	11/22/06 4:21 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:07 p.m.
Something is wrong...	MrHen	11/22/06 4:35 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 9:09 a.m.
this is awesome, I love this stuff	MrHen	11/22/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 11:25 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:00 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 2:41 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 5:48 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/23/06 4:58 a.m.
ha, nice	MrHen	11/23/06 8:05 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	9/18/07 11:06 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:28 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 4:07 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 6:05 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	11/22/06 7:14 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 7:31 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/23/06 12:37 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff LINK	Frungi	11/25/06 1:15 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/06 10:04 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/26/06 6:30 p.m.
timeline == ?	MrHen	11/23/06 8:09 a.m.
agreement :)	MrHen	11/23/06 8:00 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Aachim	11/22/06 1:24 p.m.
returning to time travel	Pfhorever	11/23/06 10:13 a.m.
Re: returning to time travel	Frungi	11/23/06 10:43 a.m.
Re: well, obviously	Document	11/21/06 10:30 a.m.
Re: time travel	Forrest of B.org	11/17/06 3:47 p.m.
Re: time travel	legacytyphoon	11/17/06 8:29 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 9:17 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/19/06 5:59 a.m.
I disagree LINK	MrHen	11/18/06 6:55 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Frungi	11/21/06 7:48 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:26 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Vid Boi	11/16/06 6:18 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	D-M.A.	11/16/06 8:38 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 2:05 p.m.
cough spam cough	MrHen	11/15/06 3:35 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	SnowCrash	11/15/06 4:12 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 5:03 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	kyjel	11/15/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 6:14 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Document	11/16/06 10:10 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	REB	11/16/06 7:31 p.m.
REB!!! NM	ukimalefu	11/16/06 8:24 p.m.
Re: Hey, ukimalefu! NM	REB	11/17/06 9:41 a.m.
MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) NM	thermoplyae	11/16/06 11:27 p.m.
WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/17/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	kyjel	11/17/06 10:28 a.m.
It was a joke. >. NM	MrHen	11/17/06 2:49 p.m.
Re: Got It ;-) NM	REB	11/17/06 3:07 p.m.
WMaiD LINK	Blayne	11/17/06 11:24 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	SnowCrash	11/18/06 10:31 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Blayne	11/21/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/21/06 10:50 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Frungi	11/21/06 7:09 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : Unilinear... hee... : And I disagree with your last statement. If you returned yourself things : would change again and you could probably find a copy of yourself : somewhere with the memory of being kidnapped. The memories would not : suddenly appear. : The following may not make much sense, either because it is weird, or because : I am wrong. Hopefully it will make sense... but it may bruise the brain. : Being kidnapped by your future you may inspire you to time-travel, thus : seemingly causing the first event. But this is a misconception. At this : point, there are all sorts of messy particulars to sort out, which is : easiest by labeling the different yous: You #1: The "original" : you, the one that time-travels backward and kidnaps yourself. This you has : never been kidnapped and has no memories of it. : You #2: Young you, the first you that was kidnapped. Brought to the : "future", shown how time-travel works, and then "sent" : back to invent time-travel. When You #2 grows up (remember his kidnapping) : he time-travels back to kidnap himself. But he has to beat You #1, because : You #1 is about to kidnap him. : You #3: The you that You #2 kidnaps. The cycle is about to repeat, but there : is a catch: You #1 has now never kidnapped anyone because You #2 beat him : to You #3. : But this is a misconception. You #1 did kidnap You #2 which is obvious : because You #2 remembers it. You #1 caused a split in your timeline which : is why we think of You #1 and You #2 as different people. They basically : are different people, had different childhoods, different memories, and : the only reason they are related at all is biologically. : You #2 grows up with the memory of being kidnapped and then kidnaps himself : causing another split: now we have You #3. All of the events of all three : of your childhoods did happen and there are potentially three of you : running around. If You #1, You #2, and You #3 all showed up at the same : time they could discuss their childhoods and all three would be different. : The conclusion is that You #1 did kidnap You #2 and You #2 did kidnap : You #3. : And all of this happened in a unilinear timeline. The illusion of a paradox : is there because we assume that when You #2 interrupted You #1 to kidnap : You #3 preventing him from kidnapping You #2, You #2's future does not : exist because You #1 never kidnapped him. : But You #1 has already kidnapped him and so all of the knowledge and : experience exists and You #2 has become an entity to himself. : The real paradox is the time-travel itself, not the repercussions of the : time-travel. : The reason it is difficult is because our language assumes things about time. : All of our words and sentence possess an assumption that we cannot control : time. Saying something like, "then You #2 interrupted You #1 and : kidnapped You #3" does not make sense because of how we usually think : about the words "then" and "interrupted". : Identity also poses a problem. All three versions of you are different and : really have nothing to do with each other. : Note: Of course, this is all hypothetical. Also, I love this stuff, so I may : have skipped something in there.
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