Re: time travel and plots in general


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Re: time travel and plots in general

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 11/15/06 7:57 p.m.
In Response To: time travel and plots in general (MrHen)

: Yeah, time-travel in general annoys me, mostly because it generally creates
: plot-holes for no real advantage.
Time travel really only creates a few kinds of plot holes, depending on how you do it:
(1) There is a single immutable timeline which you can change.
Problem: paradoxes, which as self-contradictions cannot exist.
Sloppy solution:
By some unknown mechanism, causing a paradox will gradually destroy the universe if you don't set things right again before it all goes kaboom or people start disappearing from photos.
(2) There is a single immutable timeline which you cannot change.
Problem: you shouldn't be able to travel time in the first place.
Sloppy solution:
For some unknown reason there exists a loop in time, where history as you know it already involves future you having gone into the past, and thus all events in the plot are predestined.
(3) Time is multilinear, where going back just creates yet another parallel timeline.
Problem: No motivation to care about whether anyone changes the past. This future is still the same.
Sloppy solution:
For some irrational reason, someone does care about stopping people from changing the past, either because they don't understand that it doesn't really matter, or because they just... don't want that to happen, grr, no bad wrong.
Honestly I can see a decent time travel story in #3 style time travel, where the protagonists travel to the past to try to craft an alternate future, and face various challenges along the way and have to travel to the past again and again to remedy the errors that lead to their desired alternate future not materializing. This would basically be an elaborate "what if" type of scenario - "hmm if we alter this variable how do things pan out? Damn, still not right. What if we do this instead?" No worries about paradoxes, destroying the universe, time loops, predestination, or any of that - just a chance to try again, and again, and again, until you get a happy ending. The Butterfly Effect was something like this. So's Marathon Infinity, now that I think about it. Wow. Back on topic in the end...

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Plotline question concerning Infinity Icarus 11/15/06 12:18 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 1:10 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity RyokoTK 11/15/06 1:43 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:51 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:59 p.m.

time travel and plots in general MrHen 11/15/06 6:08 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general patrick 11/15/06 6:48 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 7:57 p.m.

more on plot MrHen 11/16/06 5:07 a.m.

Re: more on plot Document 11/18/06 11:39 a.m.

I would not know. MrHen 11/18/06 12:33 p.m.

Re: I would not know. Document 11/18/06 12:44 p.m.

oh, okay. :) MrHen 11/18/06 3:37 p.m.

Re: oh, okay. :) thermoplyae 11/18/06 7:18 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general LegacyTyphoon 11/17/06 12:39 a.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/17/06 1:04 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel MrHen 11/17/06 2:51 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/20/06 11:01 a.m.

well, obviously MrHen 11/20/06 12:17 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Frungi 11/20/06 5:01 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Forrest of B.org 11/20/06 6:52 p.m.

unilinear? MrHen 11/21/06 4:49 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Frungi 11/21/06 5:49 a.m.

gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 6:21 a.m.

Re: gah, no... Frungi 11/21/06 7:41 a.m.

Re: gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 8:25 a.m.

Hypothetical question Frungi 11/21/06 1:45 p.m.

Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/22/06 4:53 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/22/06 4:24 p.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 7:52 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/23/06 9:11 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 4:04 p.m.

Re: gah, no... Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:19 p.m.

there are no time-loops MrHen 11/22/06 4:21 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:07 p.m.

Something is wrong... MrHen 11/22/06 4:35 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 9:09 a.m.

this is awesome, I love this stuff MrHen 11/22/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 11:25 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:00 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 2:41 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 5:48 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/23/06 4:58 a.m.

ha, nice MrHen 11/23/06 8:05 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 9/18/07 11:06 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:28 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 4:07 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 6:05 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 11/22/06 7:14 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 7:31 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/23/06 12:37 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff *LINK* Frungi 11/25/06 1:15 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/26/06 10:04 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/26/06 6:30 p.m.

timeline == ? MrHen 11/23/06 8:09 a.m.

agreement :) MrHen 11/23/06 8:00 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Aachim 11/22/06 1:24 p.m.

returning to time travel Pfhorever 11/23/06 10:13 a.m.

Re: returning to time travel Frungi 11/23/06 10:43 a.m.

Re: well, obviously Document 11/21/06 10:30 a.m.

Re: time travel Forrest of B.org 11/17/06 3:47 p.m.

Re: time travel legacytyphoon 11/17/06 8:29 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 9:17 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:07 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/19/06 5:59 a.m.

I disagree *LINK* MrHen 11/18/06 6:55 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Frungi 11/21/06 7:48 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:26 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Vid Boi 11/16/06 6:18 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general D-M.A. 11/16/06 8:38 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 2:05 p.m.

*cough* spam *cough* MrHen 11/15/06 3:35 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity SnowCrash 11/15/06 4:12 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 5:03 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity kyjel 11/15/06 5:06 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 6:14 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Document 11/16/06 10:10 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity REB 11/16/06 7:31 p.m.

REB!!! *NM* ukimalefu 11/16/06 8:24 p.m.

Re: Hey, ukimalefu! *NM* REB 11/17/06 9:41 a.m.

MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) *NM* thermoplyae 11/16/06 11:27 p.m.

WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/17/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: WMaiD kyjel 11/17/06 10:28 a.m.

It was a joke. >. *NM* MrHen 11/17/06 2:49 p.m.

Re: Got It ;-) *NM* REB 11/17/06 3:07 p.m.

WMaiD *LINK* Blayne 11/17/06 11:24 a.m.

Re: WMaiD SnowCrash 11/18/06 10:31 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Blayne 11/21/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/21/06 10:50 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Frungi 11/21/06 7:09 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: Time travel really only creates a few kinds of plot holes, depending on how : you do it: (1) There is a single immutable timeline which you can change. : Problem: paradoxes, which as self-contradictions cannot exist. : Sloppy solution: By some unknown mechanism, causing a paradox will gradually : destroy the universe if you don't set things right again before it all : goes kaboom or people start disappearing from photos. : (2) There is a single immutable timeline which you cannot change. : Problem: you shouldn't be able to travel time in the first place. : Sloppy solution: For some unknown reason there exists a loop in time, where : history as you know it already involves future you having gone into the : past, and thus all events in the plot are predestined. : (3) Time is multilinear, where going back just creates yet another parallel : timeline. : Problem: No motivation to care about whether anyone changes the past. This : future is still the same. : Sloppy solution: For some irrational reason, someone does care about stopping : people from changing the past, either because they don't understand that : it doesn't really matter, or because they just... don't want that to : happen, grr, no bad wrong. : Honestly I can see a decent time travel story in #3 style time travel, where : the protagonists travel to the past to try to craft an alternate future, : and face various challenges along the way and have to travel to the past : again and again to remedy the errors that lead to their desired alternate : future not materializing. This would basically be an elaborate "what : if" type of scenario - "hmm if we alter this variable how do : things pan out? Damn, still not right. What if we do this instead?" : No worries about paradoxes, destroying the universe, time loops, : predestination, or any of that - just a chance to try again, and again, : and again, until you get a happy ending. The Butterfly Effect was : something like this. So's Marathon Infinity, now that I think about it. : Wow. Back on topic in the end...

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Plotline question concerning Infinity	Icarus	11/15/06 12:18 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 1:10 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	RyokoTK	11/15/06 1:43 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:51 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:59 p.m.
time travel and plots in general	MrHen	11/15/06 6:08 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	patrick	11/15/06 6:48 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 7:57 p.m.
more on plot	MrHen	11/16/06 5:07 a.m.
Re: more on plot	Document	11/18/06 11:39 a.m.
I would not know.	MrHen	11/18/06 12:33 p.m.
Re: I would not know.	Document	11/18/06 12:44 p.m.
oh, okay. :)	MrHen	11/18/06 3:37 p.m.
Re: oh, okay. :)	thermoplyae	11/18/06 7:18 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	LegacyTyphoon	11/17/06 12:39 a.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/17/06 1:04 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	MrHen	11/17/06 2:51 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/20/06 11:01 a.m.
well, obviously	MrHen	11/20/06 12:17 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Frungi	11/20/06 5:01 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Forrest of B.org	11/20/06 6:52 p.m.
unilinear?	MrHen	11/21/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Frungi	11/21/06 5:49 a.m.
gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 6:21 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	Frungi	11/21/06 7:41 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 8:25 a.m.
Hypothetical question	Frungi	11/21/06 1:45 p.m.
Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/22/06 4:53 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/22/06 4:24 p.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 7:52 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/23/06 9:11 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 4:04 p.m.
Re: gah, no...	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:19 p.m.
there are no time-loops	MrHen	11/22/06 4:21 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:07 p.m.
Something is wrong...	MrHen	11/22/06 4:35 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 9:09 a.m.
this is awesome, I love this stuff	MrHen	11/22/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 11:25 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:00 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 2:41 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 5:48 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/23/06 4:58 a.m.
ha, nice	MrHen	11/23/06 8:05 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	9/18/07 11:06 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:28 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 4:07 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 6:05 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	11/22/06 7:14 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 7:31 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/23/06 12:37 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff LINK	Frungi	11/25/06 1:15 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/06 10:04 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/26/06 6:30 p.m.
timeline == ?	MrHen	11/23/06 8:09 a.m.
agreement :)	MrHen	11/23/06 8:00 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Aachim	11/22/06 1:24 p.m.
returning to time travel	Pfhorever	11/23/06 10:13 a.m.
Re: returning to time travel	Frungi	11/23/06 10:43 a.m.
Re: well, obviously	Document	11/21/06 10:30 a.m.
Re: time travel	Forrest of B.org	11/17/06 3:47 p.m.
Re: time travel	legacytyphoon	11/17/06 8:29 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 9:17 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/19/06 5:59 a.m.
I disagree LINK	MrHen	11/18/06 6:55 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Frungi	11/21/06 7:48 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:26 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Vid Boi	11/16/06 6:18 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	D-M.A.	11/16/06 8:38 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 2:05 p.m.
cough spam cough	MrHen	11/15/06 3:35 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	SnowCrash	11/15/06 4:12 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 5:03 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	kyjel	11/15/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 6:14 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Document	11/16/06 10:10 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	REB	11/16/06 7:31 p.m.
REB!!! NM	ukimalefu	11/16/06 8:24 p.m.
Re: Hey, ukimalefu! NM	REB	11/17/06 9:41 a.m.
MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) NM	thermoplyae	11/16/06 11:27 p.m.
WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/17/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	kyjel	11/17/06 10:28 a.m.
It was a joke. >. NM	MrHen	11/17/06 2:49 p.m.
Re: Got It ;-) NM	REB	11/17/06 3:07 p.m.
WMaiD LINK	Blayne	11/17/06 11:24 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	SnowCrash	11/18/06 10:31 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Blayne	11/21/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/21/06 10:50 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Frungi	11/21/06 7:09 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : Time travel really only creates a few kinds of plot holes, depending on how : you do it: (1) There is a single immutable timeline which you can change. : Problem: paradoxes, which as self-contradictions cannot exist. : Sloppy solution: By some unknown mechanism, causing a paradox will gradually : destroy the universe if you don't set things right again before it all : goes kaboom or people start disappearing from photos. : (2) There is a single immutable timeline which you cannot change. : Problem: you shouldn't be able to travel time in the first place. : Sloppy solution: For some unknown reason there exists a loop in time, where : history as you know it already involves future you having gone into the : past, and thus all events in the plot are predestined. : (3) Time is multilinear, where going back just creates yet another parallel : timeline. : Problem: No motivation to care about whether anyone changes the past. This : future is still the same. : Sloppy solution: For some irrational reason, someone does care about stopping : people from changing the past, either because they don't understand that : it doesn't really matter, or because they just... don't want that to : happen, grr, no bad wrong. : Honestly I can see a decent time travel story in #3 style time travel, where : the protagonists travel to the past to try to craft an alternate future, : and face various challenges along the way and have to travel to the past : again and again to remedy the errors that lead to their desired alternate : future not materializing. This would basically be an elaborate "what : if" type of scenario - "hmm if we alter this variable how do : things pan out? Damn, still not right. What if we do this instead?" : No worries about paradoxes, destroying the universe, time loops, : predestination, or any of that - just a chance to try again, and again, : and again, until you get a happy ending. The Butterfly Effect was : something like this. So's Marathon Infinity, now that I think about it. : Wow. Back on topic in the end...
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