Something is wrong...


	/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/

Something is wrong...

Posted By: MrHen Date: 11/22/06 4:35 a.m.
In Response To: Re: unilinear? (Forrest of B.org)

: I didn't claim that they would suddenly appear, only that, if it were
: possible to have effects on the past in unilinear time, those effects
: *necessarily* must have already been accounted for in the future you came
: from, otherwise the time would not be unilinear.
What? I do not understand that. I think your unilinear and multilinear definitions are clashing with my own. I see multilinear time as a network of intermingling futures that can be visited or revisited. There are alternate futures and you can jump from one to the other. The alternate universes exist where everything is backwards from today, yada, yada. In a nutshell, everything that could have ever happened did happen on some timeline somewhere.
For me, unilinear means there is only ever one past and one future and one timeline. The events on that timeline can change and if one event changes all events after that event will likely change. The cause and effect chain forces a new future that is completely unpredictable.
With such a view, if you exist, and you time-travel, you can now cause all sorts of events. You cannot "poof" yourself from existence because you already exist and you are at the point in time that everything needs to be rewritten.
Why would the events have to be *necessarily* accounted for in the future? I think this might be where we are having our trouble. My view of unilinear time does not have this requirement.
: The scenario you described is how it would work in multilinear time. Which is
: the only way I can imagine time travel, if at all possible, working;
: because unilinear time-loops require that history as seen from outside the
: timeline (i.e. from an omniscient viewpoint not within the universe) just
: have these loops in it for some reason. There would be no way to create a
: loop from within the timeline: 10yo me would have to have been kidnapped,
: taken to the future, and returned, and then me now, before I ever got a
: time machine, would have to already remember that, because otherwise would
: either require time to branch (which would make it multilinear, which by
: hypothesis we have said it's not) or cause a paradox (with is logically
: impossible).
It would not have to branch if it was rewritten. In that cause, the only reason you are still able to time-travel is because your identity is what took a trip. You are out of harms way. You can travel back to the future to exist in that time and everything is okay. You could kidnap 10yo you and never return him. You could kill him if you want. You would cease to exist in the future but you still exist in the present, where you killed your 10yo self. It is obvious you existed there because you killed yourself. There is no paradox and there is no timeloop, because that 10yo you that you killed will never go back in time. He is dead.
The only reason it looks like a paradox is because we mistakenly associate you with your 10yo self. Those are two completely different people.
In a sense, it is like time is writing events to a disk somewhere, and by traveling in time you bump the needle back and time has to write all of those events again.
: Basically: if for some reason God designed history to have loops in it,
: unilinear time travel is possible, but only within those loops. Otherwise
: it's not, and time travel is only possible if time is multilinear.
Are you thinking of unilinear as "only one possible future" and multilinear as "multiple possible futures"? Because there can be different possible futures, but only one ever exists at a time.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Plotline question concerning Infinity Icarus 11/15/06 12:18 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 1:10 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity RyokoTK 11/15/06 1:43 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:51 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 3:59 p.m.

time travel and plots in general MrHen 11/15/06 6:08 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general patrick 11/15/06 6:48 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/15/06 7:57 p.m.

more on plot MrHen 11/16/06 5:07 a.m.

Re: more on plot Document 11/18/06 11:39 a.m.

I would not know. MrHen 11/18/06 12:33 p.m.

Re: I would not know. Document 11/18/06 12:44 p.m.

oh, okay. :) MrHen 11/18/06 3:37 p.m.

Re: oh, okay. :) thermoplyae 11/18/06 7:18 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general LegacyTyphoon 11/17/06 12:39 a.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/17/06 1:04 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel MrHen 11/17/06 2:51 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:09 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/20/06 11:01 a.m.

well, obviously MrHen 11/20/06 12:17 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Frungi 11/20/06 5:01 p.m.

Re: well, obviously Forrest of B.org 11/20/06 6:52 p.m.

unilinear? MrHen 11/21/06 4:49 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Frungi 11/21/06 5:49 a.m.

gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 6:21 a.m.

Re: gah, no... Frungi 11/21/06 7:41 a.m.

Re: gah, no... MrHen 11/21/06 8:25 a.m.

Hypothetical question Frungi 11/21/06 1:45 p.m.

Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/22/06 4:53 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/22/06 4:24 p.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 7:52 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers Frungi 11/23/06 9:11 a.m.

Re: Hypothetical answers MrHen 11/23/06 4:04 p.m.

Re: gah, no... Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:19 p.m.

there are no time-loops MrHen 11/22/06 4:21 a.m.

Re: unilinear? Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:07 p.m.

Something is wrong... MrHen 11/22/06 4:35 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 9:09 a.m.

this is awesome, I love this stuff MrHen 11/22/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 11:25 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:00 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/22/06 2:41 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 5:48 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff treellama 11/23/06 4:58 a.m.

ha, nice MrHen 11/23/06 8:05 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 9/18/07 11:06 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 12:28 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 4:07 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/22/06 6:05 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Document 11/22/06 7:14 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/22/06 7:31 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/23/06 12:37 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff *LINK* Frungi 11/25/06 1:15 p.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Forrest of B.org 11/26/06 10:04 a.m.

Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff Frungi 11/26/06 6:30 p.m.

timeline == ? MrHen 11/23/06 8:09 a.m.

agreement :) MrHen 11/23/06 8:00 a.m.

Re: Something is wrong... Aachim 11/22/06 1:24 p.m.

returning to time travel Pfhorever 11/23/06 10:13 a.m.

Re: returning to time travel Frungi 11/23/06 10:43 a.m.

Re: well, obviously Document 11/21/06 10:30 a.m.

Re: time travel Forrest of B.org 11/17/06 3:47 p.m.

Re: time travel legacytyphoon 11/17/06 8:29 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/17/06 9:17 p.m.

Re: time travel Frungi 11/18/06 1:07 p.m.

Re: time travel Document 11/19/06 5:59 a.m.

I disagree *LINK* MrHen 11/18/06 6:55 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Frungi 11/21/06 7:48 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Forrest of B.org 11/21/06 8:26 p.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general Vid Boi 11/16/06 6:18 a.m.

Re: time travel and plots in general D-M.A. 11/16/06 8:38 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 2:05 p.m.

*cough* spam *cough* MrHen 11/15/06 3:35 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity SnowCrash 11/15/06 4:12 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 5:03 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity kyjel 11/15/06 5:06 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity thermoplyae 11/15/06 6:14 p.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity Document 11/16/06 10:10 a.m.

Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity REB 11/16/06 7:31 p.m.

REB!!! *NM* ukimalefu 11/16/06 8:24 p.m.

Re: Hey, ukimalefu! *NM* REB 11/17/06 9:41 a.m.

MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) *NM* thermoplyae 11/16/06 11:27 p.m.

WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/17/06 9:33 a.m.

Re: WMaiD kyjel 11/17/06 10:28 a.m.

It was a joke. >. *NM* MrHen 11/17/06 2:49 p.m.

Re: Got It ;-) *NM* REB 11/17/06 3:07 p.m.

WMaiD *LINK* Blayne 11/17/06 11:24 a.m.

Re: WMaiD SnowCrash 11/18/06 10:31 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Blayne 11/21/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Aaron Sikes 11/21/06 10:50 a.m.

Re: WMaiD Frungi 11/21/06 7:09 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: What? I do not understand that. I think your unilinear and multilinear : definitions are clashing with my own. I see multilinear time as a network : of intermingling futures that can be visited or revisited. There are : alternate futures and you can jump from one to the other. The alternate : universes exist where everything is backwards from today, yada, yada. In a : nutshell, everything that could have ever happened did happen on some : timeline somewhere. : For me, unilinear means there is only ever one past and one future and one : timeline. The events on that timeline can change and if one event changes : all events after that event will likely change. The cause and effect chain : forces a new future that is completely unpredictable. : With such a view, if you exist, and you time-travel, you can now cause all : sorts of events. You cannot "poof" yourself from existence : because you already exist and you are at the point in time that everything : needs to be rewritten. : Why would the events have to be *necessarily* accounted for in the future? I : think this might be where we are having our trouble. My view of unilinear : time does not have this requirement. : It would not have to branch if it was rewritten. In that cause, the only : reason you are still able to time-travel is because your identity is what : took a trip. You are out of harms way. You can travel back to the future : to exist in that time and everything is okay. You could kidnap 10yo you : and never return him. You could kill him if you want. You would cease to : exist in the future but you still exist in the present , where you killed : your 10yo self. It is obvious you existed there because you killed : yourself. There is no paradox and there is no timeloop, because that 10yo : you that you killed will never go back in time. He is dead. : The only reason it looks like a paradox is because we mistakenly associate : you with your 10yo self. Those are two completely different people. : In a sense, it is like time is writing events to a disk somewhere, and by : traveling in time you bump the needle back and time has to write all of : those events again. : Are you thinking of unilinear as "only one possible future" and : multilinear as "multiple possible futures"? Because there can be : different possible futures, but only one ever exists at a time.

If you'd like to include a link to another page with your message,
please provide both the URL address and the title of the page:
Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:

If necessary, enter your password below:
Password:

Problems? Suggestions? Comments? Email maintainer@bungie.org
Marathon's Story Forum is maintained with WebBBS 5.12.

Plotline question concerning Infinity	Icarus	11/15/06 12:18 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 1:10 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	RyokoTK	11/15/06 1:43 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:51 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 3:59 p.m.
time travel and plots in general	MrHen	11/15/06 6:08 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	patrick	11/15/06 6:48 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/15/06 7:57 p.m.
more on plot	MrHen	11/16/06 5:07 a.m.
Re: more on plot	Document	11/18/06 11:39 a.m.
I would not know.	MrHen	11/18/06 12:33 p.m.
Re: I would not know.	Document	11/18/06 12:44 p.m.
oh, okay. :)	MrHen	11/18/06 3:37 p.m.
Re: oh, okay. :)	thermoplyae	11/18/06 7:18 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	LegacyTyphoon	11/17/06 12:39 a.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/17/06 1:04 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	MrHen	11/17/06 2:51 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:09 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/20/06 11:01 a.m.
well, obviously	MrHen	11/20/06 12:17 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Frungi	11/20/06 5:01 p.m.
Re: well, obviously	Forrest of B.org	11/20/06 6:52 p.m.
unilinear?	MrHen	11/21/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Frungi	11/21/06 5:49 a.m.
gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 6:21 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	Frungi	11/21/06 7:41 a.m.
Re: gah, no...	MrHen	11/21/06 8:25 a.m.
Hypothetical question	Frungi	11/21/06 1:45 p.m.
Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/22/06 4:53 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/22/06 4:24 p.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 7:52 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	Frungi	11/23/06 9:11 a.m.
Re: Hypothetical answers	MrHen	11/23/06 4:04 p.m.
Re: gah, no...	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:19 p.m.
there are no time-loops	MrHen	11/22/06 4:21 a.m.
Re: unilinear?	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:07 p.m.
Something is wrong...	MrHen	11/22/06 4:35 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 9:09 a.m.
this is awesome, I love this stuff	MrHen	11/22/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 11:25 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:00 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/22/06 2:41 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 5:48 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	treellama	11/23/06 4:58 a.m.
ha, nice	MrHen	11/23/06 8:05 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	9/18/07 11:06 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 12:28 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 4:07 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/22/06 6:05 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Document	11/22/06 7:14 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/22/06 7:31 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/23/06 12:37 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff LINK	Frungi	11/25/06 1:15 p.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/06 10:04 a.m.
Re: this is awesome, I love this stuff	Frungi	11/26/06 6:30 p.m.
timeline == ?	MrHen	11/23/06 8:09 a.m.
agreement :)	MrHen	11/23/06 8:00 a.m.
Re: Something is wrong...	Aachim	11/22/06 1:24 p.m.
returning to time travel	Pfhorever	11/23/06 10:13 a.m.
Re: returning to time travel	Frungi	11/23/06 10:43 a.m.
Re: well, obviously	Document	11/21/06 10:30 a.m.
Re: time travel	Forrest of B.org	11/17/06 3:47 p.m.
Re: time travel	legacytyphoon	11/17/06 8:29 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/17/06 9:17 p.m.
Re: time travel	Frungi	11/18/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: time travel	Document	11/19/06 5:59 a.m.
I disagree LINK	MrHen	11/18/06 6:55 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Frungi	11/21/06 7:48 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Forrest of B.org	11/21/06 8:26 p.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	Vid Boi	11/16/06 6:18 a.m.
Re: time travel and plots in general	D-M.A.	11/16/06 8:38 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 2:05 p.m.
cough spam cough	MrHen	11/15/06 3:35 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	SnowCrash	11/15/06 4:12 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 5:03 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	kyjel	11/15/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	thermoplyae	11/15/06 6:14 p.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	Document	11/16/06 10:10 a.m.
Re: Plotline question concerning Infinity	REB	11/16/06 7:31 p.m.
REB!!! NM	ukimalefu	11/16/06 8:24 p.m.
Re: Hey, ukimalefu! NM	REB	11/17/06 9:41 a.m.
MrHen apologized it for in his post, but thanks :) NM	thermoplyae	11/16/06 11:27 p.m.
WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/17/06 9:33 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	kyjel	11/17/06 10:28 a.m.
It was a joke. >. NM	MrHen	11/17/06 2:49 p.m.
Re: Got It ;-) NM	REB	11/17/06 3:07 p.m.
WMaiD LINK	Blayne	11/17/06 11:24 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	SnowCrash	11/18/06 10:31 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Blayne	11/21/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Aaron Sikes	11/21/06 10:50 a.m.
Re: WMaiD	Frungi	11/21/06 7:09 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : What? I do not understand that. I think your unilinear and multilinear : definitions are clashing with my own. I see multilinear time as a network : of intermingling futures that can be visited or revisited. There are : alternate futures and you can jump from one to the other. The alternate : universes exist where everything is backwards from today, yada, yada. In a : nutshell, everything that could have ever happened did happen on some : timeline somewhere. : For me, unilinear means there is only ever one past and one future and one : timeline. The events on that timeline can change and if one event changes : all events after that event will likely change. The cause and effect chain : forces a new future that is completely unpredictable. : With such a view, if you exist, and you time-travel, you can now cause all : sorts of events. You cannot "poof" yourself from existence : because you already exist and you are at the point in time that everything : needs to be rewritten. : Why would the events have to be necessarily accounted for in the future? I : think this might be where we are having our trouble. My view of unilinear : time does not have this requirement. : It would not have to branch if it was rewritten. In that cause, the only : reason you are still able to time-travel is because your identity is what : took a trip. You are out of harms way. You can travel back to the future : to exist in that time and everything is okay. You could kidnap 10yo you : and never return him. You could kill him if you want. You would cease to : exist in the future but you still exist in the present , where you killed : your 10yo self. It is obvious you existed there because you killed : yourself. There is no paradox and there is no timeloop, because that 10yo : you that you killed will never go back in time. He is dead. : The only reason it looks like a paradox is because we mistakenly associate : you with your 10yo self. Those are two completely different people. : In a sense, it is like time is writing events to a disk somewhere, and by : traveling in time you bump the needle back and time has to write all of : those events again. : Are you thinking of unilinear as "only one possible future" and : multilinear as "multiple possible futures"? Because there can be : different possible futures, but only one ever exists at a time.
	If you'd like to include a link to another page with your message, please provide both the URL address and the title of the page:
	Optional Link URL:
	Optional Link Title:
	If necessary, enter your password below:
	Password: