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Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. L
Posted By: Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) <sumpca@yahoo.com>Date: 11/19/04 8:53 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. L (Strangepurple)

: I think the point all of YOU are failing to see, is regardless of our
: personal skill, dedication to the game, or understanding that bungie
: wanted to change the game from the beginning, it's still a very very
: different game and it is very possible it will alienate some of the
: current fans.

That's always a risk when releasing a sequel... there will be a die-hard core of fans from the original who will resent any changes to what they saw as perfect.

Does that mean that there should be no sequels? Hopefully no one here would answer, "Yes."

: Look at the sales charts, people have been buying the game and
: keeping it on the best selling list for 3 years now, that is truly saying
: something about the way people feel about this game, pro or not. With this
: game came extreme dedication from pro players to casual fans alike, for
: many non-gamers as well this became one with real mainstream appeal that
: everyone picked up and absolutely loved.

If we're looking at the sales charts, let's compare how quickly Halo 1 and Halo 2 reached the two million mark.

Sales charts can be used to justify a lot. The real measure will be how long players continue to play the game. Halo has lasted 3 years, which is impressive, and will likely last even longer. It remains to be seen how long Halo 2 will last.

I suspect that the multiplayer value of Halo 2 will allow it to match or even supercede its predecessor. I saw the Halo PC community start to dry up with the introduction of CE and then the stratification of skill levels... there were some games I played where I spent more time dead than playing, simply because ONE other player so greatly exceeded my skills.

You can't build a fan base by alienating new players, and nothing will alienate faster than a game that isn't fun.

The Optimatch system (assuming further refinements come) will ensure that, no matter your skill level, you will be able to find games where you CAN be competitive. It will allow newer players to build skills (unlike the two-step Sidewinder games I was witnessing, where you take two steps after spawning and die) and consistantly change the matchmaking so that as the skills improve players find better and better play.

My point is that the entry bar was FAR too high for online multiplayer in Halo; even if you had the equipment and knowledge to use it, there was very little chance of being able to build competitive skills.

Bungie chose to risk alienating a hard core of older fans in order to appeal to a larger community of neophytes. That's not wrong from a business perspective, and (IMO) it's not wrong from a gaming perspective.

Games evolve to meet demand. Baseball in the 1880s used to allow fielders to throw a ball at a runner; if the ball struck, he was out. This led to unsatisfying gameplay, so it was removed. I suspect that there was much complaining about that from some of the players. Later, the distance from the pitching mound to home plate was increased to balance the increased power and skill of pitchers. Oooo boy did the pitchers bellyache about that. (Catchers, too.) But it led to better play.

Of all the posters here, I would suspect that you are the best-suited to adapt to the new scheme. Give it time and practice. I think you'll be surprised in the end.

: I am just extremely frustrated
: because as many of you will point out, I can always go back and play Halo,
: but the interest in the community is diverted right now to Halo2, so there
: isnt even anyone to play it.

That is a sad consequence of releasing a sequel. However, I'm guessing that the initial spike of interest will return to a more 'normal' level in a week or two. After that, folks who remain dissatisfied with the multiplayer will return to XBC.

: Now many of you will say I only feel this way because I suck now blah blah,
: that is not the case though. I feel this way because Halo and every single
: little detail about it becamse so loved by us that we did not need or want
: any changes.

As you pointed out yourself above, there's always Halo 1. I'd also like to point out that, if there were no changes, it would just be a rehash of Halo 1 and as such viciously criticised as a cheap money-grab. With some justification, I might add.

: In addition, leave the MLG thread the hell alone if you don't like it, it is
: about the ONLY place that i've seen online that you can even begin to
: discuss this issue without getting blatantly flamed by fanboys who don't
: even view the discussion objectively but simply say "you should be
: thanking bungie for halo2".

I haven't touched the MLG thread, because the fanboyism there turned me off. All I saw was resentment of change and calls for some kind of torch-bearing mob to storm the barricades because of Bungie's heretical changes.

-- Steve sees much irrationality on both sides of the issue. Can we all just exercise some patience, work through the problems, and *gasp* maybe seek solutions instead of just complaining?

The Northwest London Gamers' Group


Message Index



Replies:

Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LINKguy who doesn't post....too often 11/18/04 1:15 p.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lthunderhawk555 11/18/04 1:30 p.m.
           Don't Hijack the thread, thunder. *NM*guy who doesn't post....too often 11/18/04 1:33 p.m.
     Re: You mean BOARD the thread.thunderhawk555 11/18/04 1:44 p.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LCount Zero 11/18/04 1:51 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lthunderhawk555 11/18/04 2:03 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LDruff 11/18/04 2:26 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lfaintstalker21 12/14/04 10:51 a.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lguy who doesn't post....too often 11/18/04 2:05 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LLouis Wu 11/18/04 2:29 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LjayWHY 11/18/04 3:01 p.m.
                             Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LMikeMan445 11/18/04 6:44 p.m.
                                   Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lrapture 11/18/04 7:22 p.m.
                                         Your point?MikeMan445 11/19/04 5:21 a.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LPico 11/18/04 4:25 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LCount Zero 11/18/04 2:50 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LGran Calc 11/19/04 4:46 p.m.
           TeamworkClefton Twain 11/18/04 2:35 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAchronos 11/18/04 8:46 p.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LjayWHY 11/18/04 2:28 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LClefton Twain 11/18/04 2:42 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAfroRyan 11/18/04 3:38 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LMSN 11/18/04 3:38 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LLouis Wu 11/18/04 5:43 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LYayap the grunt 11/18/04 5:58 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LThe Covenant 11/18/04 6:27 p.m.
                             Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LViolentlyHappy 11/19/04 5:51 p.m.
                 /me highfives Louis Wu *NM*retsamolah 11/18/04 6:25 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LViolentlyHappy 11/19/04 5:50 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/18/04 8:02 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lgoatrope 11/18/04 11:14 p.m.
                 If so...Chester the Destroyer 11/19/04 4:07 p.m.
                       /shameless act of self promotion.Chester the Destroyer 11/19/04 4:10 p.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LMSN 11/18/04 3:31 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lguy who doesn't post....too often 11/18/04 3:53 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LMSN 11/18/04 3:56 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lguy who doesn't post....too often 11/18/04 3:59 p.m.
                             Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAchronos 11/18/04 9:13 p.m.
                                   Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAnim8rJB 11/19/04 3:19 a.m.
                                   Achronos' post is the winnerMiguel Chavez 11/19/04 11:35 a.m.
                                   Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LViolentlyHappy 11/19/04 6:02 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lnof 11/18/04 5:07 p.m.
                       sounds that wayFrogBlast 11/18/04 5:20 p.m.
                       Bingo. *NM*MikeMan445 11/18/04 6:50 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Ldeanero 11/18/04 5:11 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. Lretsamolah 11/18/04 6:50 p.m.
                 Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LStrangepurple 11/18/04 11:26 p.m.
                       What the...MikeMan445 11/19/04 3:29 a.m.
                             Re: What the...Strangepurple 11/19/04 1:35 p.m.
                       Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/19/04 8:53 a.m.
                             Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LLouis Wu 11/19/04 9:24 a.m.
                                   Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/19/04 9:41 a.m.
                                         Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LStrangepurple 11/19/04 1:42 p.m.
                                               Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LStrangepurple 11/19/04 2:09 p.m.
     Bah. *Long*Yayap the grunt 11/18/04 3:33 p.m.
           One CorrectionDiscipleN2k 11/18/04 4:16 p.m.
                 Re: One CorrectionGran Calc 11/19/04 5:00 p.m.
           Re: Bah. *Long*jayWHY 11/18/04 4:50 p.m.
                 Re: Bah. *Long*Yayap the grunt 11/18/04 5:28 p.m.
                 Re: Bah. *Long*Louis Wu 11/18/04 5:48 p.m.
                       Re: Bah. *Long*MSN 11/18/04 5:57 p.m.
                             Re: Bah. *Long*deanero 11/18/04 6:21 p.m.
                             Re: Bah. *Long*Ross Mills [subnova] 11/19/04 5:48 a.m.
                                   Re: Bah. *Long*MSN 11/19/04 12:20 p.m.
                       Agreed, Mr. Wu....Mushroom Samba 11/18/04 7:16 p.m.
                             Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....Achronos 11/18/04 9:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....Some guy... 11/18/04 10:26 p.m.
                                   Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....Smeeisqualityfoo 11/18/04 10:47 p.m.
                                   Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....Ross Mills [subnova] 11/19/04 5:52 a.m.
                                         Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....Achronos 11/19/04 12:43 p.m.
                                   Another Grenade TrickAssassin-B 11/19/04 8:56 a.m.
                                   Re: Agreed, Mr. Wu....StickFigureNinja 11/19/04 10:38 a.m.
                                   Louis...?Ross Mills [subnova] 11/19/04 10:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Louis...?Miguel Chavez 11/19/04 11:34 a.m.
                                         Re: Louis...?Louis Wu 11/19/04 11:34 a.m.
                                               Re: Louis...? *NM*Slothboy 11/19/04 12:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Louis...?Slothboy 11/19/04 12:04 p.m.
                 Re: Bah. *Long*bigboy7791 11/19/04 12:55 p.m.
           Let Little Joshy Have his Say!!!!!La Voz del Noobo 11/19/04 7:20 p.m.
     ...............nof 11/18/04 4:48 p.m.
           Re: ...............jayWHY 11/18/04 5:11 p.m.
                 Re: ...............deanero 11/18/04 5:18 p.m.
                       Re: ...............jayWHY 11/18/04 5:41 p.m.
                             Re: ...............deanero 11/18/04 6:13 p.m.
                             Re: ...............Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/18/04 8:32 p.m.
                                   steve is a funny guy *NM*FrogBlast 11/18/04 8:47 p.m.
                                         Thank you... I'll be here all week. *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/19/04 8:17 a.m.
                             Re: ...............Achronos 11/18/04 9:25 p.m.
                                   I stopped reading....JakeDaGreat 11/18/04 9:58 p.m.
           Nothing has changed, I still get ownedWado SG 11/18/04 5:28 p.m.
                 Re: Nothing has changed, I still get ownedHawk7886 11/18/04 6:33 p.m.
           Re: That's what I see too...Dan Chosich 11/18/04 6:32 p.m.
     The ignorance is staggering.MikeMan445 11/18/04 6:35 p.m.
           well said ;) *NM*retsamolah 11/18/04 6:57 p.m.
                 well said ;)Verdafolio 11/18/04 7:00 p.m.
                       :( ???retsamolah 11/18/04 10:55 p.m.
                             Re: :( ???Salandarin 11/18/04 11:12 p.m.
                                   Re: :( ???Sep7imus [subnova] 11/19/04 8:18 a.m.
                                         Re: :( ???Gran Calc 11/19/04 5:21 p.m.
           don't let the door hit on on the way out! *NM*nof 11/18/04 7:01 p.m.
           *applauds* *NM*Druff 11/18/04 7:04 p.m.
           Re: The ignorance is staggering.Yayap the grunt 11/18/04 7:05 p.m.
     Stupidity.Chester the Destroyer 11/18/04 7:32 p.m.
           Re: Stupidity.<-- He has THE point, and I agreeMax Power (aka- dewbe) 11/18/04 11:08 p.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LDaNoob 11/18/04 10:20 p.m.
           Don't be mad about a new learning curve.Mr_McMurder 11/18/04 10:53 p.m.
           Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LMikeMan445 11/19/04 5:28 a.m.
     The n00b's Lament (Long-ish)TheDrinkNinja 11/18/04 10:46 p.m.
           Re: The n00b's Lament (Long-ish)Plank 11/18/04 11:21 p.m.
                 Re: The n00b's Lament (Long-ish)TheDrinkNinja 11/18/04 11:25 p.m.
                       Let Op! YoohooNinja! Ephorate pwns!111!11!1hax *NM*Syracuse022 11/19/04 10:37 a.m.
                       Re: The n00b's Lament (Long-ish)Gran Calc 11/19/04 6:34 p.m.
           Re: Excellent post.ThorsHammer 11/19/04 12:28 a.m.
                 That was also an excellent post.Salandarin 11/19/04 10:55 a.m.
     Re: Upset with Halo2 gameplay? You're not alone. LAdmiral Death (formerly Death Box) 11/19/04 9:37 a.m.
     Upset with This Thread? You're not alone.meleeman 11/19/04 9:38 a.m.
     So...basically this guy wants the pistol back... *NM*Mr Yun 11/19/04 9:42 a.m.
     It's simple... *long* <- haha, contradictory!Slothboy 11/19/04 12:00 p.m.
     Dinosaurs will die.ajenteks 11/19/04 3:34 p.m.
     Xbox Live is Halo 1's ruin.madcowjim 11/19/04 3:57 p.m.
           Re: Xbox Live is Halo 1's ruin.MikeMan445 11/19/04 7:56 p.m.
                 Re: Xbox Live is Halo 1's ruin.Iced_Eagle 11/20/04 12:10 a.m.



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