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Re: Curious, re ILB canon
Posted By: thebruce0 <thebruce@rogers.com>Date: 11/28/11 9:46 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Curious, re ILB canon (Dragonclaws)


: I am a great fan of ILB, but it does bother me that Frankie just said that it
: "is canon" without any qualifiers. When he was in an interview
: for the HGN, he said that Bungie was embracing it as canon, which is less
: definite as saying it's canon.

That's a good point. I hope there's no vague limbo use of "canon" that we need to start watching for... something's canon or it's not. In this case, I'd certainly like to see what it is about ILB that is canon, if not the story itself. I could understand taking parts of the story and incorporating it into canon though. There are definitely a lot of great elements that create new threads in the universe where, IMO, great stories could be told.

: There are parts of ILB that simply don't
: work with the current state of Halo canon. In the HGN, two ONI guys
: reference Herzog and Standish--who wouldn't have conflicted if not for the
: main ILB storyline with Melissa and the artifact--but their timeline is
: different from that presented in ILB.

Huh, I'll have to look that up...

: I'd like Jan, Kamal, et al. to come back, but I suspect they'd be ess interested
: in those characters.

Perhaps. But those characters are prime for some great story arcs within the Haloverse, so it would depend on the range of story types / genres they'd want to explore, I suppose. I mean, they'd have less Spartan/marine/Covvie/Flood/Forerunner context than usual I'd guess. Those characters' stories may be geared towards a somewhat different target demographic than typical Halo stories and games. ...but again, all depending on how they'd play it out and what content they throw in.

: In ILB, however, they made it
: closer to Marathon rampancy when Durga describes that after seven years a
: smart AI goes crazy and needs to be shut down by the UNSC, implying that
: the seven year lifespan is just imposed by law rather than being a limit
: of computer technology.

Some of that, but I also took away that the shut down due to craziness was an imposition due to technology :) The networks would grow far too complex for the system, and would have to be shut down. But maybe I'm getting my fiction mixed up. I didn't really see any conflict though between Durga's explanations and what I understood of canon AI tech.

: It is also implied that Durga was made rampant by
: the artifact, and so draws the listening audience to be sympathetic to a
: rogue Rampant AI.

Actually, I felt it was more a coincidence - Durga was getting to that 7 year life span (which connects her character with Jasmine as well). What I got from it was that the artifact actually saved her life, sort of like a psychological session. On the edge of rampancy, being an effect on her various psyches, the fact that she was 'shattered' and 'put together again' sort of helped iron out the wrinkles of her subconscious layers... sort of like rampancy being not simply a limit of tech, but the nature of the flash of a live human brain's neural network into tech. The unknowns of human psychology create an inherently degrading system that in time technology wouldn't be able to maintain. Her shattered state allowed some external forces to have an effect, reconciling some of these inconsistencies in here psyche, so that when it was brought together, it helped make her "sane" (in human terms) and "stable" (in Smart AI terms) - or something to that degree.

Now because this was a one-time story, it's introducing a possible solution to rampancy, IMO. But as with decent sci-fi, it's all based on an unknown, unreplicateable situation with a mysterious element (artifact), which prompts questions about human nature :) I think that's why I love the AI story so much. It doesn't contradict in-universe established canon, because it introduces a Special circumstance.

I wouldn't expect that necessarily to be one of the elements "embraced" as canon though, because that could be seen as straying from what makes Halo Halo. Nonetheless, it's one of the sci-fi elements that made me love ILB all the more, and I really hope that there's more exploration into the nature of the human-sourced Smart AI construct technology. Being not simply a created program but a virtualization of the human psyche, it affords some very quality exploration...

: In CH, rampancy was again described, and it was more of
: a compromise between FOR rampancy and ILB rampancy, with AIs becoming
: human-like and adopting god-like delusions of grandeur, and by the end
: we're sympathetic to two Rampant AIs.

I just saw those delusions of grandeur as characteristic of the characters' psyches.
Sleeping Princess is the reflection of what remains of her innocent, naive human self
The Queen is the reflection of the 'adult' AI minus her human origin
SPDR is the embedded security code acting independently having been split from the AI
The Flea was just like the SPDR, but Covenant in origin
Durga (the confused future AI construct) was basically the shell that remained in the future, still sheltering all of the above stretched to the past via the space/time effect, trying to make sense of it all, like living out a subconscious waking dream.

On closing of the wormhole, all those layers snapped back into place, but having been "ironed out", per se, the crinkles were gone, and her innards were effectively cleaned up, saving her from rampancy. (heresy to purists, probably, but to me an intriguing proposition nonetheless :)

halo.wikibruce.com



Message Index




Replies:

Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorHyokin 11/15/11 10:17 p.m.
     Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorGeneral Vagueness 11/15/11 11:59 p.m.
           Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorHyokin 11/16/11 12:14 a.m.
           Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorQuirel 11/16/11 1:18 a.m.
                 Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorArchilen 11/16/11 3:42 a.m.
                       Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorQuirel 11/16/11 11:31 a.m.
                             Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorArchilen 11/16/11 2:04 p.m.
                                   Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorLouis Wu 11/16/11 4:29 p.m.
                                         Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorGeneral Vagueness 11/16/11 5:06 p.m.
                                               Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorDagoonite 11/16/11 7:31 p.m.
                                                     Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorQuirel 11/16/11 7:54 p.m.
                                                           Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorDagoonite 11/16/11 9:31 p.m.
                                   Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'ConnorQuirel 11/16/11 8:03 p.m.
           Re: Halo: From A to Z with Frank O'Connorscarab 11/16/11 4:49 a.m.
                 The tiny hints to the future :DSanjeev 11/16/11 5:52 a.m.
                       Re: The tiny hints to the future :Dscarab 11/16/11 6:01 a.m.
                             Re: The tiny hints to the future :DArchilen 11/16/11 6:59 a.m.
                             Re: The tiny hints to the future :DJDQuackers 11/16/11 7:07 a.m.
                                   Re: The tiny hints to the future :DSanjeev 11/16/11 7:36 a.m.
                                         Re: The tiny hints to the future :Ddavidfuchs 11/16/11 8:23 a.m.
                                               Re: The tiny hints to the future :DJDQuackers 11/16/11 8:52 a.m.
                                               Re: The tiny hints to the future :DPostmortem 11/16/11 2:26 p.m.
                                                     Re: The tiny hints to the future :DIbeechu 11/16/11 7:14 p.m.
                                                           Re: The tiny hints to the future :DQuirel 11/16/11 7:19 p.m.
                                                                 Re: The tiny hints to the future :DPostmortem 11/16/11 7:53 p.m.
                                                                 Re: The tiny hints to the future :DGeneral Vagueness 11/16/11 9:58 p.m.
                                   OMG ITS UNICRON!!!!!! CALLING IT NOW. *NM*Revenant1988 11/16/11 10:38 a.m.
           Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/16/11 8:43 a.m.
                 Re: Curious, re ILB canonSirPwn4g3 11/16/11 8:54 a.m.
                       Re: Curious, re ILB canondavidfuchs 11/16/11 10:06 a.m.
                             Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/16/11 10:22 a.m.
                                   Re: Curious, re ILB canondavidfuchs 11/16/11 10:43 a.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/16/11 10:55 a.m.
                 Re: Curious, re ILB canonQuirel 11/16/11 10:56 a.m.
                       Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/16/11 11:32 a.m.
                             Re: Curious, re ILB canonGeneral Vagueness 11/16/11 5:03 p.m.
                                   Re: Curious, re ILB canonDagoonite 11/16/11 7:37 p.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonGeneral Vagueness 11/16/11 10:21 p.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/17/11 10:07 a.m.
                                               Re: Curious, re ILB canonThe Loot 11/17/11 6:44 p.m.
                                                     Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/19/11 5:55 p.m.
                                                           Re: Curious, re ILB canonDragonclaws 11/19/11 7:14 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/19/11 9:42 p.m.
                                   Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/17/11 9:23 a.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonGeneral Vagueness 11/21/11 3:43 p.m.
                                               Re: Curious, re ILB canonDragonclaws 11/21/11 9:08 p.m.
                                                     Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/22/11 8:52 a.m.
                                                     Re: Curious, re ILB canonGeneral Vagueness 11/22/11 7:36 p.m.
                                                           Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/23/11 8:48 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Curious, re ILB canonGeneral Vagueness 11/28/11 11:29 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/28/11 1:45 p.m.
                                               Re: Curious, re ILB canonThe Loot 11/21/11 9:38 p.m.
                       Re: Curious, re ILB canonDragonclaws 11/19/11 7:24 p.m.
                             Re: Curious, re ILB canonStephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/19/11 10:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Curious, re ILB canondavidfuchs 11/19/11 11:51 p.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/20/11 10:41 p.m.
                                         Re: Curious, re ILB canonThe Loot 11/20/11 11:31 p.m.
                                               Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/21/11 9:08 a.m.
                                                     Re: Curious, re ILB canonDragonclaws 11/21/11 1:05 p.m.
                                                           Re: Curious, re ILB canonthebruce0 11/28/11 9:46 a.m.
     Great vid! Thanks, Frank!The Lionheart 11/16/11 11:37 a.m.
     LOL@comment: Wtf, this guy ain't Steve Austin! =D *NM*cardo 8 atl 11/16/11 2:35 p.m.



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