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Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartogra
Posted By: Stephen L. (SoundEffect) <soundeffect@hotmail.com>Date: 6/14/11 8:15 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartogra (Narcogen)


: I have a problem with assigning canonical value to anything that is observed
: outside of the normal constraints of play, though.

Except that the island was completely circumnavigable (is that a word?) and no landmasses were seen around it at all. That there are now is change for change's sake. That's what I object to.

: Just because Bungie chose to place nothing beyond the areas they would
: normally expect you to be able to reach doesn't mean they aren't there in
: the "real" environment-- to the extent that any such thing
: exists.

In a game, it's a real environment. Even if the clouds and mountains are 2D bitmap 'curtains' it's a visual description of the environment and depicts something far enough away that it's done to conserve game memory and resources while indicating there's actually a mountain or clouds present. Around the Cartographer island, there were no mountains before. There are now. BAD design decision. Do they really think no one notices these things? It can't be just me.

: The Halo ring isn't large and far away from the PoA. It's small and
: relatively close. You can walk out and touch it. A lot of the specs for
: vehicles you've developed depend on relative scale. What's the
: "real" relative size of the ring, in world units, as described
: directly in the game engine?

I could argue with enough computing resources, they would have made the Halo ring 10,000km across in-game and to scale. They represent a large item smaller due to game resource availability. This does not diminish anything. The vast, vast majority of items in the Halo games are built to a consistent scale. Only the thing either too far away or that would otherwise hinder game performance are scaled back. Those are few and far between. If you want the actual World Unit size of Halo, I can certainly provide it...but I'm at work at the moment.

: What is served story-wise by having none present there? It's neutral. There's
: no story value for that fact whatsoever. A Pelican drops the Chief off,
: and another one picks him up. If any particular adjacent land mass-- no
: matter how far away-- was his next destination, a Pelican would have taken
: him there. How far away this island is from anything has no canonical
: value whatsoever-- none.

But it very definitely wasn't there before, but is now. Here's something: when we play the Anniversary Edition, we'll see a distant mountain appear and disappear when switching back and forth between the classic and anniversary modes.

: It's a change

: Wait, what?

: First of all, if it's important that the facility here be isolated from the
: rest of the ring, it's because of the Cartographer-- not because of the
: security override, which, in-game, we're never given any reason to believe
: overrides anything other than the one door we need it to open, which is
: not isolated at all-- it's on the same island with us.

One door is opened to us, but I was under the impression from Cortana's dialogue that more was being shut down by this security system. I though it was the security system for the ring, not just the cartographer. I'll have to review the scene again.

: The Ark's cartographer is neither isolated nor on an island. If we assume
: that if being isolated was part of the design spec of a map room, then the
: Ark's should be as well. It isn't. It is, however, protected by a security
: door, which is neither distant nor isolated from the map room it secures.
: In Halo 3, it is overridden by 343GS.

The Ark is isolated. It's well outside the galaxy where there are no real density of stars. You need a Forerunner portal just to reliably get there. I can see security being less. To accidently stumble upon the Ark is a trillion to one shot (I didn't do the actual math) whereas the Halo rings are within the galaxy around stars that space faring civilizations may glean the coordinates to from strewn Forerunner artifacts lying about many worlds. The ring systems might be more secure because of that.

: Again, I can only say what I've said before-- that this is such a high
: standard-- and by high, I mean a lot higher than most of the rest of the
: audience-- that even attempting to achieve it is not cost effective, and,
: in terms of dealing with artists, probably self-defeating and ultimately
: detrimental.

: I also don't think that extreme isolation was ever a part of the design doc
: for that level. It needed to be round to allow for flexibility in playing
: the scenario, and the water was a convenient barrier to restrict the play
: area while allowing visual variety, compared to the mountains, valleys,
: and cliff edges used for the same purposes in other outdoor levels.
: Placing distant land masses, unreachably far away and presumably of no
: particular interest, changes nothing of substance because the previous
: absence of them established nothing of substance.

: Hey, I don't know. I'm getting ripped a new one in other threads for
: insisting that jets can't come out of the Chief's ass whenever it's
: convenient, and insisting that it's more important for the Chief's
: character to remain consistent than to explain where the jets came from,
: and that if the essential story of Halo is the relationship between
: Cortana and the Chief, then the significance of their last scene together
: really ought to be respected-- and I'm being told that I should withhold
: judgment and not jump to conclusions.

: So, clearly, there are plenty of changes that ruin my enjoyment and that
: other people brush off just as easily-- just different kinds of changes :)

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Replies:

I made a few quick comparison shots:The Alpha ELite 6/9/11 10:01 a.m.
     Cool!Revenant1988 6/9/11 10:03 a.m.
     Very nicePsychoRaven 6/9/11 10:04 a.m.
     Very, very nice *NM*ElzarTheBam 6/9/11 10:08 a.m.
     SuggestionWayward Spleen™ 6/9/11 10:10 a.m.
           Re: SuggestionThe Alpha ELite 6/9/11 10:27 a.m.
     Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Beckx 6/9/11 10:16 a.m.
           Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:The Alpha ELite 6/9/11 10:26 a.m.
                 Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Beckx 6/9/11 10:29 a.m.
                       Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:The Alpha ELite 6/9/11 10:39 a.m.
           Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Shishka 6/9/11 11:59 a.m.
                 Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Beckx 6/9/11 12:14 p.m.
                       Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:mnemesis 6/9/11 12:25 p.m.
                             Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Beckx 6/9/11 12:41 p.m.
                                   Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:mnemesis 6/9/11 1:04 p.m.
                                         Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Shishka 6/9/11 1:41 p.m.
                                               Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Miguel Chavez 6/9/11 9:46 p.m.
                                   Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:DMFanella 6/9/11 1:30 p.m.
                                         Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Beckx 6/9/11 1:32 p.m.
                                               Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:DMFanella 6/9/11 1:45 p.m.
                                               Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:KP 6/9/11 5:01 p.m.
                                                     I will pull this forum overGeneral Vagueness 6/9/11 6:52 p.m.
                                                           Re: I will pull this forum overShishka 6/9/11 7:30 p.m.
                                                                 Re: I will pull this forum overGeneral Vagueness 6/9/11 8:24 p.m.
                 No Bioshocking.Narcogen 6/10/11 3:11 a.m.
     Noodlie ElitesCapt Spanish 6/9/11 10:26 a.m.
     Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:Leviathan 6/9/11 10:35 a.m.
           Something looks wrong with The Silent CartographerRyanTheHeretic 6/9/11 11:38 a.m.
                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/9/11 12:33 p.m.
                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartograbluerunner 6/9/11 12:53 p.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartograuberfoop 6/9/11 1:01 p.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/9/11 2:38 p.m.
                                   Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/10/11 3:16 a.m.
                                         Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/10/11 6:42 a.m.
                                               Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/13/11 12:43 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/13/11 6:39 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/13/11 7:16 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/13/11 3:31 p.m.
                       Because everyone does it.uberfoop 6/9/11 12:58 p.m.
                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograLeviathan 6/9/11 2:26 p.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/9/11 3:50 p.m.
                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/10/11 3:13 a.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/10/11 6:39 a.m.
                                   Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograLeviathan 6/10/11 11:28 a.m.
                                         Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/10/11 2:07 p.m.
                                               Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograGeneral Vagueness 6/10/11 5:43 p.m.
                                   Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/13/11 12:51 a.m.
                                         Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/13/11 7:31 a.m.
                                               Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/14/11 2:14 a.m.
                                                     Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/14/11 8:15 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograLouis Wu 6/14/11 9:25 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/14/11 10:51 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograGeneral Vagueness 6/14/11 12:51 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartograuberfoop 6/14/11 1:52 p.m.
                                                           Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograRockslider 6/14/11 10:38 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/14/11 11:07 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/15/11 2:51 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/15/11 7:00 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/15/11 2:47 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/15/11 6:58 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/17/11 2:13 a.m.
                                                           Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/15/11 2:42 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/15/11 6:55 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograNarcogen 6/17/11 2:17 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartograuberfoop 6/17/11 3:09 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograStephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/17/11 6:47 a.m.
                       dittoscarab 6/10/11 4:19 a.m.
                       Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent Cartograurk 6/17/11 11:32 a.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograFyreWulff 6/17/11 11:40 a.m.
                             Re: Something looks wrong with The Silent CartograChewbeccawacca 6/17/11 1:53 p.m.
     Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:zerowind117 6/9/11 3:45 p.m.
           Re: I made a few quick comparison shots:ghost faction 6/15/11 10:08 a.m.



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