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Re: Eh.
Posted By: Ma1agateDate: 5/16/05 10:27 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Eh. (kapowaz)

: The issues are that what is morally wrong and what is legally wrong
: aren't necessarily the same thing, nor do they arguably directly cross
: over on all occasions. Your example with Games Workshop illustrates the
: point about where copyright/trademark law falls down; they are using the
: law to assert control over potential future markets rather than acting in
: the interests of the furtherment of the art. This was never the intention
: behind the creation of the laws, even if it is the common usage of the
: laws today.

I agree. I was just stating my opinion on how I believe things should be handled, and yes, I also agree that the laws aren't being used in the true spirit they were created in, they're being used as tools to scrabble to the top of the heap, which doesn't do anyone much good except the large companies, and even then the advantage gained is up for debate. The laws are being invoked less with a mind towards a natural progression of the property and more with a foot-in-the-door-of-the-future approach in mind. Calling dibs on anything somebody might think of later, as it were. But corporate lawyers, and I hazard to say the corporate mentality in general is, in my estimation, predisposed that way by default. Which sucks.

Let me be just a tad more clear on my GW example also. They (GW) believe that a tattoo artist making money by tattooing something from their Warhammer IP is infringement. According to them, its not so much the fact that someone is using something from their IP, its more that someone else is *gasp* making money off of it.

Now in the case of someone creating any kind of entertainment media from the WH IP and passing it off as their own, I could see grounds for legal action. But being so anal as to forbid a tattoo artist, who most certainly isn't going to make any kind of life-changing money, to tattoo something on a customer who is a fan? That's just a little extreme. I don't think GW needs to worry about missing out on untold piles of money to be gleaned from the tattoo (market?/industry?) by using their WH IP. I also doubt that a tattoo artist would try to pass anything commercial like that off as their own. That would be like claiming Woody Woodpecker was their brainchild.

As I said in my previous post, I believe the creator should have a say in what can and can't be used. In addition, I think that laws only need be invoked if the offending material is a clear case of copyright infringement, and then really only if a profit is being turned. A few isolated cases of tattoos isn't going to hurt anybody, but if somebody passes off a total conversion as their own and tries to sell it, obviously something would need to be done. But still, if an outfit like GW wants to hardline it like that, I think they have a right to. It doesn't mean they're not dicks for being that way; but if they feel that's the only way to protect their property, I say just let them.

Its probably to their own detriment to hang on to what they have with such a deathgrip, I think it implies lack of creativity or confidence in unrelated future projects, which may or may not be well founded. In the case of GW, it may well be. In Bungie's case, I don't think we need worry about that, although I (and the community as well, I'm sure) would like to see them hang on to the Halo franchise so as to prevent another Myth 3.

: I'm still with Flashman on the subject; "intellectual property" is
: bad, and stifles creativity.

It sounds like we might have different definitions for IP, either that or I simply don't understand how you think it stifles creativity. I don't really understand this part of what you're saying.

: The emphasis remains upon those people using
: Bungie's work for creative purposes (as opposed to for personal profit,
: which I would say undermines any excuse the individual in question may
: have) to exercise social responsibility and not simply abuse the original
: work.

But yeah, I do agree with this part.

: Also, credit where credit is due should be given. There is a growing trend
: towards this way of thinking - witness the Creative Commons license for
: instance. I should like to think that grass roots fans should be more in
: favour of this than in further handing the corporations whatever rights
: they desire (which believe me, no matter what you think, is not in our
: long term interests as fans of this medium).

Not familiar with this myself, but I agree that putting the fate of your work in the corportation's hands doesn't usually spell a deserving fate for the work and the spirit it was originally conceived in. I'll have to check that out.

~Ma1


Message Index




Replies:

Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 6:17 a.m.
     Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Flashman 5/16/05 6:47 a.m.
           Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 7:26 a.m.
                 Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Captain Spark 5/16/05 9:33 a.m.
                       Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 9:53 a.m.
                       Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 10:04 a.m.
                             Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Sep7imus [subnova] 5/16/05 10:24 a.m.
                                   Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 10:32 a.m.
                                         Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Sep7imus [subnova] 5/16/05 10:48 a.m.
                                         Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Count Zero 5/16/05 10:55 a.m.
                                               Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 11:00 a.m.
     Eh.Louis Wu 5/16/05 7:28 a.m.
           Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/16/05 8:33 a.m.
           Re: Eh.Ma1agate 5/16/05 9:14 a.m.
                 Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/16/05 9:33 a.m.
                       Re: Eh.Louis Wu 5/16/05 9:59 a.m.
                             Oooh, rimshot! *NM* *NM*The People 5/16/05 10:07 a.m.
                             Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/16/05 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Eh.Ma1agate 5/16/05 10:27 a.m.
                             Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/16/05 10:49 a.m.
                             "evil corporations"mr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:03 p.m.
                       Whoa, that's not what I said!Flashman 5/16/05 4:55 p.m.
                             rationale for Copyright in the Constitution!!!mr_mcmurder 5/16/05 6:30 p.m.
                                   well you were doing ok for a while...kapowaz 5/17/05 1:04 p.m.
                             Re: Whoa, that's not what I said!kapowaz 5/17/05 12:52 p.m.
                                   Where's the HTML gone? *NM*kapowaz 5/17/05 1:16 p.m.
                 Re: Eh.scarab 5/17/05 7:46 a.m.
                       Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/17/05 1:12 p.m.
           Re: Eh.KP 5/16/05 9:22 a.m.
                 Re: Eh.kapowaz 5/16/05 9:39 a.m.
                 Re: Eh.Ma1agate 5/16/05 10:31 a.m.
     The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorJillybean 5/16/05 10:38 a.m.
           Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorkapowaz 5/16/05 10:55 a.m.
                 Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorSep7imus [subnova] 5/16/05 11:01 a.m.
                       Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorkapowaz 5/16/05 11:08 a.m.
                             Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorSep7imus [subnova] 5/16/05 1:09 p.m.
                       Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorJillybean 5/16/05 11:08 a.m.
                 Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorJillybean 5/16/05 11:05 a.m.
                       Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorThorsHammer 5/16/05 12:07 p.m.
                             Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorJillybean 5/16/05 1:30 p.m.
                 Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authormr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:44 p.m.
           Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorGil Galahad 5/16/05 11:11 a.m.
                 She is so lucky/So why does she cryJillybean 5/16/05 11:16 a.m.
                 Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authormr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:48 p.m.
                       Re: The moral dilemmas of a fanfic authorGil Galahad 5/16/05 4:30 p.m.
           Fair Use: Your fanfic is not illegal (law stuff)mr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:30 p.m.
                 Re: Fair Use: Your fanfic is not illegal (law stufJillybean 5/16/05 3:36 p.m.
                 Re: Fair Use: Your fanfic is not illegal (law stufmr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:52 p.m.
     Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Gil Galahad 5/16/05 10:56 a.m.
           Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/16/05 11:05 a.m.
                 Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Mattat 5/16/05 12:49 p.m.
                 Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...mr_mcmurder 5/16/05 3:55 p.m.
                       Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Gil Galahad 5/16/05 4:36 p.m.
                             Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...Flashman 5/16/05 5:04 p.m.
                             Re: Halo Ripping and "Intellectual Property"...kapowaz 5/17/05 1:15 p.m.
     Of cars and softwareajenteks 5/16/05 3:56 p.m.
           Re: Of cars and softwareGil Galahad 5/16/05 4:46 p.m.
                 Re: Of cars and softwareajenteks 5/16/05 5:38 p.m.
                       Re: Of cars and softwareGil Galahad 5/17/05 5:22 a.m.
     Immatation is the sincerest form of flattery...Gil Galahad 5/16/05 5:05 p.m.
           Good artists copy; great artists steal. *NM*kapowaz 5/17/05 1:06 p.m.
     *OT* Lecturer censored for defending P2P networkspile0nades 5/20/05 8:54 a.m.



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