glyphstrip FAQ button
Halo.bungie.org
glyphstrip
Frequently Asked Forum Questions
 Search the HBO News Archives

Any All Exact 
Search the Halo Updates DBs

Halo Halo2 
Search Older Posts on This Forum:
Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts


What do/did we want from Halo 2.. and forH3 *long*
Posted By: 3Suns <mrguenter@hotmail.com>Date: 12/2/04 9:15 p.m.

In Response To: Deep breaths - vitriol free. (Dazza)

First, let me say that I too, am very impressed with the passionate, well-thought out, and articulate reviews/critiques of the game. It has been a pleasure to read the threads here at HBO over the last couple of weeks. HBO must be the coolest forum out there. Outstanding administration. :)

This post has two parts to it. First I discuss the E3 2003 Demo, and two specific personal moments of Halo 2 gaming. Second, I discuss where I think developers need to focus their limited resources in future projects (specifically Bungie for Halo3).

It seems clear to me that many of us wanted that which we saw in the E3 2003 demo. Indeed, even what we saw in the Mac '99 demo has not yet fully come to fruition, in my opinion. (Bungie is just amazing at movie making, and their dreams are very cool.)

What was right about the E3 Demo?
I think one of the things was the future Earth. Very familiar, yet changed and new. George Lucas talks about creating props for his Star Wars movies and the need to use materials that are vaguely familiar so the viewer has something to which he or she can relate (e.g., jet engines on Pod Racers). I know that it was "recognition" that got me all excited about New Mombasa. I wanted to drive on those wide, striped, curvy, hilly "somehow familiar" roads since I first saw that Demo. I didn't care one hoot about the duel wielding or even the boarding. What impressed me was the "familiarity" and complexity of the city and its streets, AND the AI Marine Driving - suddenly there were two and three jeeps zipping around. So much was happening all over the place, and it seemed like there were a good 5 blocks square that could be explored. Incredible! And, it was something that I "knew".

It comes as no surprise then, that my favorite moment, hands down, is when I stepped into the Amphitheatre and I could hear Marines shouting, and the whirring of the 'Hog rippin' around and around me. At first, I couldn't see where it was coming from, and then when I finally got sight of them, I burst out laughing with joy and pride: joy that Bungie made these guys look so REAL (the driving, the chatter), joy that there were friendlies around helping me out, and pride, that I was a part of that, we're a team. I "know" those guys rippin' around, the're the good guys, the're on my side and they're cussin' up a storm and fighting their asses off for me!

On the other hand, the most shocking/disappointing moment for me happened just after discovering with delight that the Ghosts could travel on the water (I spotted an elite hiding behind something out on the water). It was the invisble wall that prevents the player from going around the docks to the next stage of the beach. WHY even allow the ghosts to hover above water if they cannot be used to approach the next "battlefield" from the sea? If it was impossible to broaden the width of the level, water could have been used as a natural border for the level (a la TSC). The Ghosts could have sunk. Instead it served as a reminder that I am playing a game where I must go from A to B in a specific order, over a certain path. It took me until I got to the tunnel to re-immerse myself.

So, what do/did we want from Halo 2 and 3?
(I am assuming Halo 3, and that on Xbox2.)

I don't want to rehash what others have already eloquently (and sometimes not so eloquently) stated. What I do want to say, and get your opinions on, is the following (I get to the point eventually).

Things came into focus this morning when checking out EvilAvatar. I came across a link for War Devil, a game for Xbox2 (see link below) and it pissed me off. The game is gorgeous, but I can see that there might be nothing more than original DOOM gameplay, with prettier pictures. Finally we get hardware that can do something with and we "spend" it all on shadows. When does it stop?!

The industry is at a turning point because console developers now have new hardware to work with. What I don't want from developers is games using all the processing power of the next generation hardware (XBOX2) for prettier pictures. Halo and Halo 2 are gorgeous games! The sound is flawless. We don't need anything prettier or better sounding for the next iteration.

I want big scale battles. I want lots happening all around me. I want several Hogs drivin' beside me, not just for a couple of minutes like in Metropolis, but for hours. I want multiple objectives with multiple solutions (e.g., stealth and overt aggression). I want large maps, with intel, that is, consultative maps, complete and incomplete, with correct and stale info included. I want to be able to make the decisions: where I go, what I take with me, which objective I attempt first, as someone mentioned about Halo Level, Halo.

What we? want is innovation. I want developers to use those processor cycles for more on-screen enemies, more friendly AI, smarter AI, genuinely bigger and fully-accessible maps, . IMO, I think all hardware and labour resources should be spent on what I have mentioned above. Not on rendering engines and prettier pictures (unless it can be done in parallel, without taking any time or other resources away from level design).

If indeed Microsoft wants a Halo 3 as soon as possible for the Next Xbox (and Bungie wants to make it), we can assume that time will be limited, Again.

However, that need not be a problem. Bungie already has all the assets they need to make what I think would be my Dream Halo 3 game. They have enemies, vehicles, weapons, locations, textures, and sounds - all in tremendous abundance and quality. If they use that on the next generation hardware, they will have plenty of cycles for AI, and larger maps. Perhaps they need to get back to their Mythical roots, the roots that were the foundation for Halo. Maybe that is wherein the answer lies for Halo 3, and what was missing from Halo 2.

Pretty pictures, but gameplay?


Message Index



Replies:

A few deep breaths *SP*ragereset 11/30/04 1:19 a.m.
     True, true *NM* *NM*7h3_h0ck3y_w1z 11/30/04 2:10 a.m.
     Re: more post-game carnage reportR.G. 11/30/04 5:44 a.m.
           Re: more post-game carnage ^^^ *SP* above! ^^^ *NM*R.G. 11/30/04 5:50 a.m.
           Re: more post-game carnage reportragereset 12/1/04 6:13 a.m.
                 Re: more post-game carnage reportMr Sniggles 12/1/04 5:39 p.m.
                       Re: more post-game carnage reportBlitzwolf 12/1/04 8:19 p.m.
           *chink* *NM*rolando 12/1/04 12:04 p.m.
           Re: more post-game carnage reportViscily II 12/1/04 3:41 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Kermit 11/30/04 6:48 a.m.
     I Only Have a Couple Sentences to Say About This..Mintz08 11/30/04 7:31 a.m.
           Ditto, both. :) *NM*Blitzwolf 12/1/04 8:03 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Ross Mills [subnova] 11/30/04 8:43 a.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Louis Wu 11/30/04 10:57 a.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*ragereset 11/30/04 12:59 p.m.
                 Agreed.MikeMan445 11/30/04 6:19 p.m.
                       Re: Agreed.box 12/1/04 11:58 a.m.
                             BULLSEYE!Siva Wr'k 12/1/04 1:41 p.m.
                                   Re: BULLSEYE!Siva Wr'k 12/1/04 1:44 p.m.
                                         Re: BULLSEYE!Qonas 12/1/04 10:41 p.m.
                                               Couldn't have said it better myself *NM* *NM*box 12/2/04 10:21 a.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Wado SG 11/30/04 4:38 p.m.
                 Yes, agreed. Too much story in one game to digest *NM*Siva Wr'k 12/1/04 1:47 p.m.
                       Re: Yes, agreed. Too much story in one game to digQonas 12/2/04 4:41 p.m.
           Hmm... *SP*Saint [lpn] 11/30/04 8:05 p.m.
                 EVERYTHING and BETTERSuddenDark.com 12/1/04 11:45 a.m.
                       Re: EVERYTHING and BETTEREl Bastard 12/1/04 11:50 a.m.
                             Re: EVERYTHING and BETTERSuddenDark.com 12/1/04 1:08 p.m.
                                   Re: EVERYTHING and BETTERmercury 12/1/04 4:34 p.m.
                       YES, YES, YES!Blitzwolf 12/1/04 10:08 p.m.
           Re: Why I think that happened *pseudo-review* *SP*ThorsHammer 11/30/04 10:41 p.m.
                 Re: Why I think that happened *pseudo-review* *SP*Sep7imus [subnova] 12/1/04 9:47 a.m.
                       Only on Xboxragereset 12/1/04 1:03 p.m.
                 What I felt was missing:ChiperSoft 12/1/04 12:46 p.m.
                 Extension on that...axman 12/1/04 1:07 p.m.
                       Bingo. *NM*Siva Wr'k 12/1/04 1:52 p.m.
                       Re: Extension on that...box 12/1/04 8:04 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*FriendlyFire 12/1/04 8:35 a.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Capain Spark 12/1/04 10:50 a.m.
                 Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Capo Rip 12/1/04 6:44 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*TD MasterChief 12/1/04 11:09 a.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*El Bastard 12/1/04 11:18 a.m.
           the 'seek not to conquer.." factor...?Zaknafein 12/1/04 2:05 p.m.
                 Re: the 'seek not to conquer.." factor...?Sep7imus [subnova] 12/1/04 2:59 p.m.
                       My sentiments exactly. Well said. =D *NM*Zaknafein 12/1/04 3:42 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Stuart 12/1/04 2:25 p.m.
           Remember where in the game you enjoyed it the mostMthdDirector 12/1/04 2:26 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Viscily II 12/1/04 4:15 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*'Nosolee 12/1/04 5:33 p.m.
           I think, I've figured out what's missing. *SP*Blitzwolf 12/1/04 8:43 p.m.
                 Re: I think, I've figured out what's missing. *SP*igniter 12/1/04 11:17 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Ducain 12/1/04 10:13 p.m.
                 Re: Analog plasma pistolragereset 12/1/04 11:09 p.m.
                 Re: A few deep breaths *SP*ThorsHammer 12/1/04 11:15 p.m.
                       Re: A few deep breaths *SP* True!Ducain 12/2/04 3:51 p.m.
           I just can't help but point out....Konrad 12/2/04 8:27 p.m.
                 Burn. *NM*Zero Flaw (E Nomini Patri) 12/2/04 8:35 p.m.
                 bad second quotegspawn 12/2/04 8:39 p.m.
     Re: Of Repetition *SP*Sep7imus [subnova] 11/30/04 5:06 p.m.
     my two cents. *sp*B-Sharp 11/30/04 6:34 p.m.
           Two more centsragereset 11/30/04 11:14 p.m.
                 Re: Two more cents to your two more centspaladin2007 12/1/04 11:24 a.m.
                 Re: Two more centschaosknight514 12/1/04 4:36 p.m.
                 Something else to think about...B-Sharp 12/1/04 4:59 p.m.
           My Opinionjac170sd 12/1/04 4:48 p.m.
                 Re: My OpinionB-Sharp 12/1/04 5:46 p.m.
     I have a few legitimate critiquesNoir 12/1/04 10:25 a.m.
           Another $0.02Smitty 12/1/04 2:41 p.m.
     keep taking those deep breathsMasterGrunt_Yayap-117 12/1/04 10:50 a.m.
           Re: keep taking those deep breathsbungiefan 12/1/04 11:35 a.m.
     Deep breaths - vitriol free.Dazza 12/1/04 11:30 a.m.
           Re: Deep breaths - vitriol free.Sep7imus [subnova] 12/1/04 11:41 a.m.
                 Re: Deep breaths - vitriol free.Dazza 12/1/04 11:46 a.m.
                       Re: Deep breaths - vitriol free.Sep7imus [subnova] 12/1/04 11:49 a.m.
                             Re: Deep breaths - vitriol free.Dazza 12/1/04 11:51 a.m.
                 Re: Deep breaths - vitriol free.Capain Spark 12/1/04 11:55 a.m.
           What do/did we want from Halo 2.. and forH3 *long*3Suns 12/2/04 9:15 p.m.
     Noteable "community" figuresWRATHofGOD 12/1/04 1:10 p.m.
           Hrm...El Bastard 12/1/04 1:54 p.m.
                 Re: Hrm...GhaleonEB 12/1/04 2:44 p.m.
                       Re: Hrm...WRATHofGOD 12/1/04 3:49 p.m.
           Re: Noteable "community" figs & rampant fanboismR.G. 12/1/04 4:30 p.m.
           Sounds like someone has a bone to pick. :)Louis Wu 12/1/04 7:27 p.m.
                 Re: Sounds like someone has a bone to pick. :)WRATHofGOD 12/2/04 7:57 a.m.
           Re: Noteable "community" figuresCapo Rip 12/2/04 1:39 a.m.
     A great but imperfect gameFoolsRun 12/1/04 2:53 p.m.
           Said perfectly! Minor gripes from me below! *NM*Jamirus99 12/1/04 3:28 p.m.
           Re: A great but imperfect gamebungiefan 12/1/04 3:30 p.m.
                 The sum of its parts are greater than the wholeFoolsRun 12/1/04 5:34 p.m.
           Great post! True, this will make Halo 3 better. *NM*Siva Wr'k 12/1/04 4:08 p.m.
           Re: A great but imperfect gameInky 12/1/04 9:57 p.m.
           Excellent Review. thanks for posting it. *NM*R.G. 12/2/04 12:51 a.m.
           A Final Note to BungieVadcol 12/2/04 12:53 a.m.
     My thoughts on Halo 2 (To boot) *SP*Jamirus99 12/1/04 3:23 p.m.
     Better the second time aroundKilgoreTrout XL 12/1/04 3:25 p.m.
     Absolutely Brilliant. I Totally Agree... *NM*Bluestone 12/1/04 3:42 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Capo Rip 12/1/04 4:07 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Arc 12/1/04 5:10 p.m.
                 So true...Capo Rip 12/1/04 6:18 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Seraph 12/1/04 5:09 p.m.
           Re: A few deep breaths *SP*MthdDirector 12/1/04 7:10 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Hieros 12/1/04 5:58 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*comicbookguy 12/1/04 6:19 p.m.
     in regard to MP *img*retsamolah 12/1/04 6:49 p.m.
           Not All the Way, Spray and Pray:Jamirus99 12/1/04 7:43 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Knight Premier 12/1/04 6:53 p.m.
           it's smarter than mespaartan117 12/1/04 7:43 p.m.
     Randy Glass and Halo 2 hatersBey Bey Bey 12/1/04 7:48 p.m.
           Re: Randy Glass and Halo 2 hatersSep7imus [subnova] 12/1/04 8:16 p.m.
           Re: Randy Glass and Halo 2 hatersR.G. 12/1/04 11:13 p.m.
                 OK, I'm done, gotta call it a niteMiguel Chavez 12/2/04 1:16 a.m.
                       Ditto,...Ross Mills [subnova] 12/2/04 8:12 a.m.
                 Auteur! Auteur! Magnifique! *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 12/2/04 7:53 a.m.
                 Re: Bravo! *NM*Sep7imus [subnova] 12/2/04 9:01 a.m.
                 Re: Randy Glass and Halo 2 hatersQonas 12/2/04 4:43 p.m.
                       Re: Randy Glass and Halo 2 hatersMothergoat 12/3/04 8:47 a.m.
           what everyone should do is...fludblud 12/2/04 7:08 a.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Dundre 12/1/04 8:44 p.m.
     All I want for christmasTrevor Austin 12/1/04 9:47 p.m.
     I think that we're out of focus here.*THASF* A.K.A. The Halo and Sonic Fan 12/1/04 10:17 p.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Traize 12/2/04 7:49 a.m.
     Re: A few deep breaths *SP*Chaka 12/2/04 7:03 p.m.



contact us

The HBO Forum Archive is maintained with WebBBS 4.33.