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Re: Don't bash Carmack
Posted By: menace <matthewv@best.com>	Date: 2/10/00 10:04 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Don't bash Carmack (Jägermeister) > In a few years, I bet we will look back at Quake 3 and be like, > "Hey! That game had no story, no strategy, artwork that > sucked and pretty much wasted a good engine, and TERRIBLE system > requirements when compared with it's competition! Boy, that game > SUCKED!" Probalby not, Q3 is easily the best-looking game out at the moment in almost every way, and it performs better than UT (for instance) on most systems as well, sometimes by a VERY significant margin, despite probalby being hobbled by inefficient OpenGL implementations (whereas UT can go straight to Glide for Voodoo owners). The artwork is also excellent, the game is balanced (if less intesnely exciting than QuakeWorld was), and the engine will certaily be used for some incredible things in the coming years. Sure, Q3 the game doesn't show off all the capabilities of the engine to its fullest, but we already know that--they cut out and toned down a lot of things for performance reasons (which Epic also did with UT compared to Unreal or compared to what they could have done). > The graphics engine, while inefficient, Are you talking about Q3? How do you figure that a game capable of over 100fps on a Celeron 500 with a regular TNT (not TNT2) video card (with tweaked settings) is inefficient? I'd like to see you get similar performance out of UT even on an Athlon 800 with DDR GeForce... > is good, but the > graphics themselves are hardly "cool." I think the grahpics in Q3 ROCK. They are certainly more creative, interesting, better executed and more beautiful than most of the graphics in UT, for instance. > They're terrible. Hehe, another person slandering a game they've never played. Jagermeister, you're SO predictable and so juvenlie, aything that isn't Marathon sucks to you because Marathon is probably the only comptuer game you've ever played... Well except for UT now it seems, so now UT is the "best" and everything else sucks... > If there's one thing ID needs besides good writers, > it's good artists... Now THAT is a silly statement, I'd go out on a limb and say that actually, id's artists (most especially Kenneth Scott, their skin artist, but also Paul Steed, their modeller/animator, and Adrian Carmack, their main texture artist) are THE BEST in the industry, bar none. That's a pretty sweeping statement to make, but they're as close candidates as anyone, in my opinion (certainly nobody from Epic would be a candidate in my mind). You may not like the chosen id style, but there's really no arguing with the quality of execution. They are brilliant artists, without a doubt, and the resulting game is simply GORGEOUS. > Clever ideas?? In QUAKE gameplay?! > Don't make me laugh. Heh, again, slandering that which you do not know. It is old, and childish of you. There wouldn't be hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people playing online, and countless amateur and professional competitions staged in the game(s), not to mention thousands of avid demo watchers if there wasn't something compelling, interesting, challenging, and DEEP about the gameplay. > No, the story is what binds the game together. Pray tell when did a "story" become a desired component in a game? Do we now mourn that go and chess and billiards don't have stories?

Message Index

Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Louis Wu	2/9/00 12:58 p.m.
I think he's nuts	Mark Levin	2/9/00 1:20 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Dead Glory	2/9/00 1:31 p.m.
Ego Man!	Ragnarok	2/9/00 9:21 p.m.
SuperEgo. Hmmm. Freudian slip. (NT)	Dispatcher	2/9/00 11:10 p.m.
Don't bash Carmack	MacFury	2/10/00 12:08 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Ragnarok	2/10/00 12:57 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Maestro	2/10/00 4:30 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/10/00 4:57 a.m.
Actually, I think it's anything above 12b or so-nt	David Oosha	2/10/00 7:42 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Ragnarok	2/10/00 1:10 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 1:35 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Mark Levin	2/10/00 2:04 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 3:00 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/10/00 8:06 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Redox	2/10/00 9:42 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Louis Wu	2/12/00 4:52 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/10/00 10:43 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Mark Levin	2/11/00 12:02 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Nijhazer	2/10/00 2:51 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/10/00 8:07 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/10/00 2:26 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 3:06 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/10/00 3:25 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 3:38 p.m.
UT has better skins, IMHO	MacGuyver	2/10/00 4:54 p.m.
Re: UT has better skins, IMHO	menace	2/10/00 9:46 p.m.
Re: Q3 may have better skins alone...	Mark Levin	2/10/00 10:29 p.m.
good point Re: Q3 may have better skins alone...	menace	2/10/00 10:33 p.m.
Re: good point Re: Q3 may have better skins alone.	Jägermeister	2/11/00 2:20 p.m.
Re: good point Re: Q3 may have better skins alone.	menace	2/13/00 7:38 a.m.
Re: good point Re: Q3 may have better skins alone.	Jägermeister	2/13/00 3:34 p.m.
Cognitive Dissonance	Redox	2/10/00 10:37 p.m.
Re: Cognitive Dissonance	menace	2/10/00 10:53 p.m.
Re: Cognitive Dissonance	Redox	2/10/00 11:04 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/11/00 2:26 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Johnny Rotten	2/11/00 4:43 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/11/00 4:58 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/11/00 11:42 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/13/00 6:27 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/13/00 7:52 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/13/00 7:59 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/13/00 11:28 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/10/00 10:30 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	PowerMan	2/10/00 4:46 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/10/00 10:07 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Giule	2/11/00 8:14 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/11/00 10:56 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	8Delicious	2/11/00 11:33 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/13/00 6:45 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	8Delicious	2/14/00 7:41 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/10/00 10:04 p.m.
*Sniff* people can be so mean... (NT)	Iku-Turso	2/11/00 12:10 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/11/00 2:15 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/11/00 11:36 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/12/00 2:32 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/12/00 3:44 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/12/00 2:48 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Dan Rudolph	2/12/00 10:49 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/12/00 11:37 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/13/00 7:34 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/13/00 7:25 a.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/13/00 3:30 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	menace	2/14/00 2:37 a.m.
Can we grow up now please?	Mark Levin	2/14/00 9:12 a.m.
Not to mention...	Nijhazer	2/14/00 9:24 a.m.
Re: Not to mention...	menace	2/14/00 11:33 a.m.
OT	Nijhazer	2/14/00 12:31 p.m.
thx Re: OT	menace	2/14/00 11:45 p.m.
Re: Don't bash Carmack	Jägermeister	2/14/00 1:32 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Nijhazer	2/9/00 2:22 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Desio	2/9/00 6:30 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	sarwat	2/9/00 2:40 p.m.
Re: I think he's upset	- - [ - - - - - - Tycho - - - - - - ] - -	2/9/00 2:50 p.m.
Errr...	Xian	2/9/00 3:24 p.m.
Re: well crap	- - [ - - - - - - Tycho - - - - - - ] - -	2/9/00 5:56 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Mark Levin	2/9/00 3:33 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Daniel å•---- Transmission Er®-–*ß*¬°ßå 7 14 21 28	2/9/00 10:19 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Giule	2/9/00 2:47 p.m.
Re: About Id and Bungie..	Dalan Galma	2/9/00 6:05 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	David Oosha	2/9/00 8:33 p.m.
that guy Carmack	Mad Pad	2/10/00 9:06 a.m.
Re: that guy Carmack	menace	2/10/00 9:03 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Dan Rudolph	2/10/00 12:08 a.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 1:04 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Mark Levin	2/10/00 2:03 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Johnny Rotten	2/10/00 3:14 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Nijhazer	2/10/00 6:00 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Johnny Rotten	2/11/00 12:19 p.m.
Re: I think he's nuts	Nijhazer	2/11/00 12:41 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Br'fin	2/9/00 1:49 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	sarwat	2/9/00 2:30 p.m.
Wolf3D to Pathways? I think UU moreso	menace	2/10/00 8:51 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo, I comment on Carmack	8Delicious	2/9/00 2:19 p.m.
Something that bothers me...	Nijhazer	2/9/00 2:27 p.m.
Re: Something that bothers me...	menace	2/10/00 8:44 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Michael Ash	2/9/00 2:55 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	menace	2/10/00 8:38 p.m.
What do you guys expect him to say?	Xian	2/9/00 3:07 p.m.
Re: What do you guys expect him to say?	8Delicious	2/10/00 6:11 a.m.
Re: What do you guys expect him to say?	menace	2/10/00 8:27 p.m.
Re: What do you guys expect him to say?	8Delicious	2/11/00 10:58 a.m.
That's fair.	Forensic	2/9/00 3:41 p.m.
Re: That's fair.	Daniel å•---- Transmission Er®-–*ß*¬°ßå 7 14 21 28	2/9/00 10:31 p.m.
Re: That's fair.	menace	2/10/00 8:19 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Devil Warrior	2/9/00 3:55 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	menace	2/10/00 8:16 p.m.
Carmack comments on Halo	AlphaNumeric	2/9/00 8:57 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo	menace	2/10/00 8:10 p.m.
"ID's Mac Shadow"?! He's crazy.	Daniel å•---- Transmission Er®-–*ß*¬°ßå 7 14 21 28	2/9/00 10:15 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Maestro	2/9/00 10:40 p.m.
There are a few other types of games.... NT	Sempiternity	2/10/00 12:23 p.m.
Bungie's Agenda	Br'fin	2/10/00 2:09 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Matt	2/10/00 11:52 a.m.
Werdup!(nt)	Maestro	2/10/00 6:32 p.m.
Re: Carmack comments on Halo... what do you think?	Forensic, Voodoo Extreme version.	2/10/00 9:35 p.m.
Next On Celeberty Deathmach, Caramac VS Jones n/t	Adeamus	2/10/00 10:16 p.m.
Calm Down	Case	2/10/00 8:29 p.m.
I agree, why is everyone getting into a huff? (nt)	Freewill	2/11/00 12:24 a.m.
Cleanse with haiku!	MacGuyver	2/11/00 11:44 a.m.
Cleanse with haiku!	8Delicious	2/11/00 12:50 p.m.
Re: Cleanse with haiku!	Jägermeister	2/11/00 1:20 p.m.
beware of the iamb!	8Delicious	2/11/00 2:48 p.m.
Storied PC FPS:	Ramses II	2/11/00 2:41 a.m.
Re: Storied PC FPS:	Ragnarok	2/11/00 11:14 a.m.
Re: Calm Down	Giule	2/11/00 6:56 a.m.
Re: Calm Down	Giule	2/11/00 6:56 a.m.
Re: Calm Down	Giule	2/11/00 6:58 a.m.
I did not write that...	Jaime	2/11/00 10:03 a.m.
Who are You?	8Delicious	2/11/00 12:35 p.m.
Re: Who are You?	Nijhazer	2/11/00 12:40 p.m.
Re: I did not write that...	Case (non-Bungie)	2/11/00 8:20 p.m.
Apoligezs (Sp?)	Ragnarok	2/11/00 11:22 a.m.