Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...


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Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...

Posted By: PerseusSpartacus Date: 6/13/12 9:51 p.m.
In Response To: Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova... (Philtron)

: A lack of evidence for one theory (we're alive) is not proof of another
: (we're dead). That's not how logic works.
I'm not saying that there's no evidence that we're alive. I'm saying there's some vague evidence that we are dead.
: And actually, there is evidence that we're not dead. Like the fact that we're
: not dead. By default, if someone is running around, swimming, firing guns,
: and using machinery that means they're alive. If someone is doing all
: those things in a story then we have to assume that they are alive, and
: the only way we don't assume that is if something within the text tells us
: otherwise. That's a rule of critical analysis. There is nothing indicating
: that anyone in the Marathon universe goes on dream journeys after they're
: dead. There is also no indication that there is any sort of
: "life" after death nor afterlife in the Marathon universe. Even
: AIs which can be reassembled after they're "killed" (like Tycho
: and Leela) cease to exist while they're dead, as far as we know. Since
: there is nothing suggesting that there are exceptions to the rule then we
: must fall back on the default rule: if someone is moving around and
: performing actions then they are alive. So, we are alive in Marathon:
: Infinity.
Just because we see ourselves moving doesn't mean we're moving. René Descartes, a French philosopher, hypothesized that perhaps there is some evil demon that gives us an illusion, sort of like the brain-in-a-vat idea. You can read more about Descartes' theory here. To paraphrase Durandal, "Think about what Descartes said, and think about my theory." Just because we think we're doing something, doesn't mean we are doing something. Of course, taken to it's logical extreme, this idea would mean that the entire Marathon series could be an illusion, but I won't go there.
: Why wasn't Durandal able to get away?
He was. We weren't. We were on a different ship. At least according to my theory. Here's food for thought: suppose the end screen of Infinity is from the 'living' world (i.e. the M2 timeline). Durandal says:
Even S'buth is no more. He saved his entire race, but in the end, frozen by despair, he joined the chaos he sought to evade.
That Durandal uses the term 'chaos' is a little odd, given how the W'rkncacnter don't seem to actually appear in the M2 timeline. However, Durandal does seem to be implying that S'buth was killed by the nova. Maybe we were with S'buth at the time, slain by the same nova. And off we go into the afterlife which makes up the entirety of Infinity.
: Perseus, I think it's great that you're this interested in the Marathon
: story. It's great that in this day and age of gajillion polygon meshes and
: hyperbolic physics engine that people still recognize the exceptional
: quality of games like Marathon (Marathon: Infinity is to this day one of
: the best written video games).
Why, thank you. I'm just happy to be here. :)
: However I have to again stress, if you're
: going to analyze a story, whether it's in literate, film, or games, then
: you can only speculate on what the authors have actually told you, whether
: within the text or outside the text.
Not true! Look at the Original Level Names sections for both Marathon and Pathways into Darkness. I'm sure nobody at Bungie or Double Aught expected us to find such things.
: I'll leave you with a quote from an interview with Kirkpatrick and Geisel.
: You can find it in the "Dream Levels and Failed Timelines"
: section. Keep in mind, the trih xeem is Jjaro technology, and your own
: cyborg machinery may be of Jjaro origin as well.
: "HS: The Infinity manual provides us with the first indication that
: everything is not as it seems. The M2 events at Lh'owon have been
: rewritten and Durandal is about to meet his demise at the hands of the
: Pfhor. The Prologue level reaffirms this yet on level 2 we appear to find
: ourselves journeying back in time and working for Tycho! Are these in
: effect three different timelines?
: GK & CG: Yes, the player is jumping from a number of possible futures
: trying to find the path (eat the path) that will allow him to survive the
: cataclysm on Lh'owon, and unite him with 11th clan in a way that Durandal
: never could. How the player is able to do this jumping has to do with the
: unique interaction between Jjaro technology and sentient creatures."
Ouch. There goes my theory. Oh well, it was a fun one anyways, and IMHO, nothing actually inside the Marathon games contradicts my theory, at least as far as I have seen. I could be wrong, but the Marathon's Story Page contains such a mountain of data that it would take days, perhaps weeks, to find all the relevant contradictions. But, I guess you can't deny what the folks at Double Aught say. Thanks for the find.
Cheers,
PerseusSpartacus

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: : A lack of evidence for one theory (we're alive) is not proof of another : I'm not saying that there's no evidence that we're alive. I'm saying there's : some vague evidence that we are dead. : : And actually, there is evidence that we're not dead. Like the fact that : we're : Just because we see ourselves moving doesn't mean we're moving. René : Descartes, a French philosopher, hypothesized that perhaps there is some : evil demon that gives us an illusion, sort of like the brain-in-a-vat : idea. You can read more about Descartes' theory here . To paraphrase : Durandal, "Think about what Descartes said, and think about my : theory." Just because we think we're doing something, doesn't mean : we are doing something. Of course, taken to it's logical extreme, this : idea would mean that the entire Marathon series could be an illusion, but : I won't go there. : : Why wasn't Durandal able to get away? : He was. We weren't. We were on a different ship. At least according to my : theory. Here's food for thought: suppose the end screen of Infinity is : from the 'living' world (i.e. the M2 timeline). Durandal says: Even : S'buth is no more. He saved his entire race, but in the end, frozen by : despair, he joined the chaos he sought to evade. : That Durandal uses the term 'chaos' is a little odd, given how the : W'rkncacnter don't seem to actually appear in the M2 timeline. However, : Durandal does seem to be implying that S'buth was killed by the nova. : Maybe we were with S'buth at the time, slain by the same nova. And off we : go into the afterlife which makes up the entirety of Infinity. : : Perseus, I think it's great that you're this interested in the Marathon : Why, thank you. I'm just happy to be here. :) : : However I have to again stress, if you're : Not true! Look at the Original Level Names sections for both Marathon and : Pathways into Darkness . I'm sure nobody at Bungie or Double Aught : expected us to find such things. : : I'll leave you with a quote from an interview with Kirkpatrick and Geisel. : Ouch. There goes my theory. Oh well, it was a fun one anyways, and IMHO, : nothing actually inside the Marathon games contradicts my theory, at least : as far as I have seen. I could be wrong, but the Marathon's Story Page : contains such a mountain of data that it would take days, perhaps weeks, : to find all the relevant contradictions. But, I guess you can't deny what : the folks at Double Aught say. Thanks for the find. : Cheers, : PerseusSpartacus

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I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/10/12 10:09 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Godot	6/10/12 10:54 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/10/12 2:04 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	listener	6/13/12 9:27 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/13/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Blayne	6/15/12 9:29 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/13/12 2:59 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/13/12 3:35 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/13/12 8:07 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/13/12 9:51 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/14/12 7:22 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/14/12 8:54 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	listener	6/14/12 9:36 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/14/12 5:38 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	listener	6/17/12 6:59 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/17/12 1:13 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/17/12 2:03 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	listener	6/17/12 2:56 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/17/12 3:55 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	listener	6/18/12 9:21 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/17/12 5:48 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/18/12 6:30 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Godot	6/18/12 9:51 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/18/12 12:37 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Godot	6/19/12 9:58 a.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/20/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/20/12 3:26 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	Philtron	6/21/12 3:06 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	PerseusSpartacus	6/21/12 3:19 p.m.
Re: I Don't Think We Survived That Nova...	treellama	6/18/12 7:59 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : : A lack of evidence for one theory (we're alive) is not proof of another : I'm not saying that there's no evidence that we're alive. I'm saying there's : some vague evidence that we are dead. : : And actually, there is evidence that we're not dead. Like the fact that : we're : Just because we see ourselves moving doesn't mean we're moving. René : Descartes, a French philosopher, hypothesized that perhaps there is some : evil demon that gives us an illusion, sort of like the brain-in-a-vat : idea. You can read more about Descartes' theory here . To paraphrase : Durandal, "Think about what Descartes said, and think about my : theory." Just because we think we're doing something, doesn't mean : we are doing something. Of course, taken to it's logical extreme, this : idea would mean that the entire Marathon series could be an illusion, but : I won't go there. : : Why wasn't Durandal able to get away? : He was. We weren't. We were on a different ship. At least according to my : theory. Here's food for thought: suppose the end screen of Infinity is : from the 'living' world (i.e. the M2 timeline). Durandal says: Even : S'buth is no more. He saved his entire race, but in the end, frozen by : despair, he joined the chaos he sought to evade. : That Durandal uses the term 'chaos' is a little odd, given how the : W'rkncacnter don't seem to actually appear in the M2 timeline. However, : Durandal does seem to be implying that S'buth was killed by the nova. : Maybe we were with S'buth at the time, slain by the same nova. And off we : go into the afterlife which makes up the entirety of Infinity. : : Perseus, I think it's great that you're this interested in the Marathon : Why, thank you. I'm just happy to be here. :) : : However I have to again stress, if you're : Not true! Look at the Original Level Names sections for both Marathon and : Pathways into Darkness . I'm sure nobody at Bungie or Double Aught : expected us to find such things. : : I'll leave you with a quote from an interview with Kirkpatrick and Geisel. : Ouch. There goes my theory. Oh well, it was a fun one anyways, and IMHO, : nothing actually inside the Marathon games contradicts my theory, at least : as far as I have seen. I could be wrong, but the Marathon's Story Page : contains such a mountain of data that it would take days, perhaps weeks, : to find all the relevant contradictions. But, I guess you can't deny what : the folks at Double Aught say. Thanks for the find. : Cheers, : PerseusSpartacus
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