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Re: Is that your best response?
Posted By: Stephen L. (SoundEffect) <soundeffect@hotmail.com>Date: 3/7/10 10:44 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Is that your best response? (scarab)


: Don't even try to put words into my mouth.

: Are you arguing that acceptance of a religion absolves you from any
: responsibility for your actions?

: It sounds like a moral get-out-of-jail-free card and is itself an innately
: immoral (anti-moral?) attitude.

: And we are talking about whether people have valid reasons to dislike the
: Arbiter. We can understand an individual's circumstances without liking
: that individual.

: We know from the conversations booklet that some Elites questioned the
: genocide. They were members of the same religion and culture as the
: Arbiter.

: So his religion and culture can not be claimed to be totally deterministic of
: his outlook. (My opinion is that this should never be the case for
: anybody.)

: It is doubtful that the Arbiter openly questioned the genocide because he
: held a high position in the fleet that carried out the genocide and any
: hint of ambivalence about the genocide would have stood against him at his
: show(?) trial at the start of h2.

: I think that it is untenable to suggest that he was really a secret Human
: sympathizer who was somehow forced by circumstance into the position that
: he held before the events at Halo.

: That is not the important event because he could have been acting out of self
: interest. His intervention on our behalf with Half-Jaw is more important.
: This intervention happened in the next game. (Though it could be argued
: that he was still acting out of self interest.)

: We will never know if he would have made a similar action in the original
: Halo 2 story (the one we never played).

: No doubt?

: I don't have a copy of the book so I can't review it to form an opinion.

: We have to know that there were children there and that the Spartans knew
: this and that they knew that the destruction of the airlock would kill the
: children. Asteroids are big places. Was it recorded that everybody on the
: asteroid was killed? Was this the Spartans' intention?

: I don't remember the book that well.

: If you manage to establish that the Chief knowingly murdered children then
: you will have reduced my respect for him.

: But you will not have increased my respect for the Arbiter.

: How could he have saved the people on the asteroid? Was the asteroid
: repopulated after he destroyed the airlock or was this the same incident?

: They were agents of a totalitarian (or at least oppressive) regime. I have
: registered my disapproval before.

: I was unaware of this side of the story when I played Halo and h2. It does
: temper my enjoyment of the games. But I still feel that the Arbiter is far
: worse than the Chief. And most gamers would have known that the Covenant's
: intent was genocide.

: That didn't help much when I was plodding through the early Arbiter levels in
: h2. I spent hours doing things that I knew were not in the character's
: best interests, waiting for the inevitable reveal, when the character
: would be told something that I knew all along.

: I also had to kill the one Elite that I would have had some interest in
: playing: the Heretic. The enemy of my enemies and the chance to fight the
: war on two fronts.

: And I was never interested in the Arbiter's redemption. Why should it be all
: about him? What of his victims?

: Why should I feel a warm glow if he gets to feel a bit better about himself
: at the end of Halo 3?

: Did he learn that genocide is bad or did he learn that this particular
: genocide was unnecessary and no longer relevant in the new political
: reality?

: Did he ask Half-Jaw to forgo the glassing of Earth because he had become a
: nice person or because he thought it wise to have Sparky's and Reclaimer
: help when going to the Ark?

: -PS

: I hope that this message isn't too long for Eiii

Just to throw in a different perspective than has been tossed around...genocide, I have come to understand, is a term used when one group completely wipes out another group. This is normall a racial or ethnic distinction of groups, but in our sci-fi realm of Halo, it would extend to one species wiping out another.

I don't think one would typically use the word genocide to refer to a child stomping on an anthill and completely wiping out that subspecies of ants.

I would make the explicit comparison that to the Covenant in general, humans were not placed in any higher regard than ants. They weren't viewed as equals and were probably barely acknowledged as sentient.

My Halo Articles



Message Index




Replies:

Only 7 YearsXmoosev3 3/3/10 9:24 a.m.
     *rofl*Shishka 3/3/10 12:07 p.m.
           HBO: Shishka was Right (in 2003) *NM*Louis Wu 3/3/10 12:54 p.m.
                 HBO: Its a Roland Map. *NM*Hyokin 3/3/10 1:50 p.m.
                 Re: HBO: Shishka is Left the rest of the time. *NM*Blackstar 3/4/10 1:34 p.m.
           Re: *rofl*Xmoosev3 3/7/10 8:22 a.m.
     Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yearDruff 3/3/10 2:25 p.m.
           Wow!bluerunner 3/3/10 2:31 p.m.
           Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yICDedPpl 3/3/10 2:32 p.m.
           Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yAngelicLionheart 3/3/10 2:42 p.m.
                 Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-ysharpsniper99 3/3/10 2:53 p.m.
                       Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yJillybean 3/3/10 3:17 p.m.
                             Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-ysharpsniper99 3/3/10 3:24 p.m.
                                   Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yJillybean 3/3/10 3:26 p.m.
                                         Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yHyokin 3/3/10 3:48 p.m.
                       Yeah, he was definitely right on...stan 3/3/10 4:24 p.m.
                             i liked the arbiter :(hunt3r 3/3/10 5:54 p.m.
                                   Re: i liked the arbiter :(Metalingus627 3/3/10 7:05 p.m.
                                         Re: i liked the arbiter :(Arithmomaniac 3/3/10 8:36 p.m.
                                               Re: i liked the arbiter :(scarab 3/4/10 2:53 p.m.
                                                     Re: i liked the arbiter :(RC Master 3/4/10 3:27 p.m.
                                                           Is that your best response?scarab 3/4/10 3:47 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Is that your best response?RC Master 3/6/10 8:55 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Is that your best response?scarab 3/6/10 10:39 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Is that your best response?Metalingus627 3/6/10 3:48 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Is that your best response?Louis Wu 3/6/10 3:53 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Is that your best response?Metalingus627 3/6/10 4:02 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Is that your best response?GryphonOsiris 3/7/10 4:08 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Is that your best response?Harmanimus 3/7/10 7:45 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Is that your best response?Louis Wu 3/7/10 9:24 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Is that your best response?Harmanimus 3/7/10 10:40 a.m.
                                                                                                           Non-secular Covenantscarab 3/7/10 3:29 p.m.
                                                                                                     Space abattoirsscarab 3/7/10 3:08 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Is that your best response?scarab 3/6/10 5:59 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Is that your best response?Silent Knight 3/7/10 12:05 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Is that your best response?Metalingus627 3/7/10 5:06 a.m.
                                                                                               AlsoMetalingus627 3/7/10 5:22 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: AlsoSilent Knight 3/7/10 5:32 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Is that your best response?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 3/7/10 10:44 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Is that your best response?scarab 3/7/10 3:57 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Is that your best response?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 3/7/10 9:04 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Is that your best response?scarab 3/8/10 3:20 p.m.
                                               Re: i liked the arbiter :(General Vagueness 3/7/10 9:44 p.m.
                                                     Re: i liked the arbiter :(Fil Storamee 3/8/10 2:47 a.m.
                                                           Elites need to be FerociousDEEP NNN 3/8/10 6:19 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Elites need to be FerociousGilver 3/8/10 11:28 a.m.
                                         Re: why people hated the arbiterZe Moose 3/6/10 7:01 p.m.
                                               Re: why people hated the arbiterscarab 3/6/10 7:11 p.m.
                                                     Re: why people hated the arbiterscarab 3/6/10 7:13 p.m.
                             BOOO!!!!RC Master 3/3/10 7:44 p.m.
                                   Yeah, but...stan 3/3/10 8:36 p.m.
                                         Re: Yeah, but...RC Master 3/3/10 8:58 p.m.
                                         Re: Yeah, but...Hedgemony 3/3/10 9:10 p.m.
                                               I've always found this to be a pretty good metricEiii 3/3/10 9:36 p.m.
                                                     Here's my take...stan 3/3/10 10:39 p.m.
                                                           Re: Here's my take...Hedgemony 3/3/10 10:48 p.m.
                                                           Re: Here's my take...Eiii 3/4/10 12:35 a.m.
                                                     Re: I've always found this to be a pretty good metsharpsniper99 3/4/10 3:23 a.m.
                                                           Hey look!Eiii 3/5/10 11:51 a.m.
                                                                 Wait, you're serious?Bones153 3/6/10 4:37 p.m.
                                                           Re: I've always found this to be a pretty good metCody Miller 3/6/10 4:42 p.m.
                                                           I'm right there with you.Silent Knight 3/6/10 5:22 p.m.
                                                                 Re: I'm right there with you.Hedgemony 3/6/10 5:57 p.m.
                                                                       Re: I'm right there with you.Hikaru-119 3/6/10 6:13 p.m.
                                                                 Re: I'm right there with you.scarab 3/6/10 6:34 p.m.
                             Re: Yeah, he was definitely right on...DEEP NNN 3/3/10 8:58 p.m.
                             Re: Yeah, he was definitely right on...Archilen 3/4/10 12:53 a.m.
                             Re: Yeah, he was definitely right on...DHalo 3/7/10 12:35 p.m.
                                   Re: Yeah, he was definitely right on...RC Master 3/7/10 2:06 p.m.
                                         Re: Yeah, he was definitely right on...DHalo 3/7/10 2:48 p.m.
                 Pretty sure he was kidding. *NM*iMonkey777 3/3/10 3:43 p.m.
                       Yeah. Right. *NM* *NM*Druff 3/3/10 3:52 p.m.
                 He really did 180 on that :-) *NM*scarab 3/3/10 7:17 p.m.
           Re: Another classic Shishka chestnut from yester-yThe Se7enth Prophet 3/3/10 3:17 p.m.
           That's a burn. *NM*BlueNinja 3/3/10 4:06 p.m.
           Doesn't Count.Shishka 3/3/10 4:18 p.m.
                 Re: Doesn't Count.Druff 3/3/10 4:24 p.m.
                       Re: Doesn't Count.sharpsniper99 3/3/10 4:31 p.m.
                             Re: Doesn't Count.Druff 3/3/10 5:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Doesn't Count.sharpsniper99 3/3/10 6:15 p.m.



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