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Canon Fodder. *semi-long*
Posted By: Saint	Date: 9/1/04 11:37 p.m.
In Response To: Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading (Metatron) Everything in blue is Saint speaking. I will endeavor to keep an open mind. : Jamie Griesemer (Halo 2 Design Lead) - : “All through Halo 1 we were putting in hooks for Halo 2. Almost nothing in : Halo 1 was random. I think a lot of people are going to play Halo 2 and : then go back and play Halo 1, because they’ll see a lot of things they : didn’t see before.”(p.222) I do remember this, but I strongly believe he was referring only to the Campaign aspects of the game. In Halo 2, you can see how they've changed their multiplayer maps to look and feel part of the Halo universe. A-symmetrical, and with "real" looking surrounding terrain and layout. The Rat Race map deal was just to explain a little bit about what the heck the map is. In Halo 1 every map (with one or two exceptions) was symmetrical, something that has absolutly NO place in the "real" universe. They're just what they were supposed to be: good, balanced MP maps. The reason they gave them discriptions is to "spice it up", and describe the map. Another indicator that the maps in Halo 1 weren't canon (and part of the actually story), is the presence of the teleporter-warpers. Why would EVERY map have warpers? Covenant, Human, Halo, Forerunner... all the different environments have them and none of them are in the campaign. In my site, the Library, I just explained them as short-ranged teleportation grids similar to the one used by 343 Guilty Spark. Though they can only be used between two points. Though I don't completely consider it story canon, I threw Chiron in there because the Spartan Training complex seemed like a good addition to add and I explained it as a Spartan Training complex that was "secret" and therefore the location is unknown. [snip] : The next logical question was, is Chiron TL34 located on Halo? Of course, : there are no windows in this level, so I couldn’t tell by sight. The : description doesn’t tell us anything about it’s location, and the : architecture certainly looks Human, and not Forerunner. From there I : decided to categorize which maps are located on Halo. To my surprise, : because I’d been told by many that not all the maps are located on Halo, I : could only find one map that wasn’t on Halo.... Boarding Action. You can : clearly see that this map is located in space; however, you can also see : that it’s located close to Halo, because the planet Threshold is in the : background. I would say that the map Boarding Action is located in the : orbit of Basis, Threshold, or Halo itself. All other maps, excluding : Chiron TL34, are definitely on Halo. Proof of this accusation can be shown : in two ways. One, you can see Halo itself on most of the maps, or one can : read which maps are located on Halo at b.net’s description of the : multiplayer maps. After searching through all of this, I was still left at : a dead end with Chiron TL34's location, but then I listened. See above statements. Again, it doesn't really matter because the MP maps don't fit in to the campaign canon. They just put them on Halo because there wasn't anywhere else to put them as they didn't want to give too much away. : If you listen to the background sounds of the map Chiron TL34, you’ll hear : the exact same sound you hear in the levels Two Betrayals and Assault on : the Control Room... both levels are the same map. When you’re inside : certain structures of these levels one can hear a deep, dark breath of a : sound, and it’s not the wind outside. This sound’s source is the three : pulse generators that power Halo’s firing mechanisms. One might recall in : the level Two Betrayals, Cortana tells the MC, “The machinery in these : canyons are Halo’s primary firing mechanisms. They consist of three phase : pulse generators that amplify Halo’s signal, and allow it to fire deep : into space.” The whole point of the level Two Betrayals is to destroy : these 3 pulse generators. When you reach the first generator, the pulse : sounds, which are the deep seem to have a random pause between each : firing... generally a 15 - 18 second pause. After you’ve walked into the : first two pulse generator on the, which, by doing so, damages the pulse : generators, the pulse sounds become extremely erratic, with no general : pattern of 15 - 18 seconds between each pulse sound. Why is this so important? They had to have some kind of ambient sound in the background. Every map does. Most outdoor ones mainly have bird-creature sounds, but what kind of indoor map has that? They just reused sounds from the SP game. It's very commonplace. [snip] : One other thing for the nonbelievers: All the Halo books are derived from the : Halo Bible. The Halo Bible contains the back story to every single event : and character in the Halo universe. The different book's events and : characters are taken from the Halo Bible. If you look at it this way, the : books were actually written by those few at Bungie and Eric Trautmann, : keeper of the Halo Bible! Nylund and Dietz (Authors of the books) really : wrote an already planned out storyline. Each author’s talents were used to : write intense dialog for the characters, and to describe events with vivid : detail, all of which was mapped out in the Halo Bible. So, before you : start yelling foul ball, take this information into consideration. : Bungie/Trautmann wrote the ENTIRE storyline to the Halo universe, and : Nylund and Dietz were used to “spice up” that which had already been : planned out. This means that the books are an intricate part of the Halo : universe/storyline, and that they hold important insight into the : storyline of Halo 2. If you're interested in finding out more on this, go : to HBO and do a search for Eric Nylund, Eric Truatmann, or The Halo : Bible:) I very well know about the Halo Bible and agree that the books are canon, but I strongly disagree with what you've implied. The books are ment to expound upon the Halo game story line. It fills in the details not told in the games. Not the other way around. It's the old story... which comes first... the chicken or the egg? Halo the game... or the books...? Dr. Halsey was in The Fall of Reach before Halo was released, and she wasn't in the game, or even mentioned. Bungie used the books to fill in the gap of "If the MC is the last Spartan... how did the others come to be, and then die?". It told their story, and for that, they needed to go into their creation. Hence: Dr. Halsey. : If you still hold the belief that the books aren't going to have and effect : on the storyline of the game, then your saying that Bungie is going to : alienate the thousands of people who HAVE paid for and read the books. : That doesn't make sense??? They're not alienating them. They're rewarding the readers who take the time and effort to find out more about the Halo story. Those that haven't read the books will play through Halo 2 and see the story (Dr. Halsey or no), and still get the whole story. But those that have read the books get the backstory on why things in the game happened as they did if the details weren't explained in the game. For instance: Like Halo 1. You can play Halo 2 without playing Halo 1, but things will make much more sense if you go back and play it if you never have before. [snip] All in all a good theory, with obviously holes. Attempting to work the MP maps on Halo 1 was a good idea, but I never seriously believed, nor indeed do now, that they were ever part of the actual story. And I REALLY HOPE they don't bring clones in. It's well established that (so far) clones die within years because the neural patterns degrade rapidly because the mind is too complex to perfectly duplicate. Organs and body parts are fine, but the brain is too complex to last for long. Remember when Dr. Halsey created Cortana? She cloned her brain, knowing it wouldn't last for long, that's why she had to clone it and then do the AI creation procedure quickly. Side Note: I had a theory a long time ago that the Marines might be clones. That's why the Sarge kept coming back, and it also explained why the Marines always had at least 3 look-a-likes. However that was debunked by the novels. /side note Ackerson could have improved on the cloning technology, but I really hope this doesn't involve cloning Spartans. If they keep it in the novels, that seems fine, but to me it really doesn't have any place in the game. I'm sure they don't want Halo 2 to turn into Star Wars or Star Trek with all the cloning and time travel that goes on. It would make the story all convoluted. The books can be that way though. That's what the books are for: explaining. Now, if Ackerson was trying to clone Marines... that's different. I mean, even if you cloned a Spartan, you'd have to add all the implants and then train him again. It's not like a photo copier. ;P Marines and ODSTs would be much simpler (and cheaper) too produce. And they could do it in mass quanities. But this brings up the ethical debate on if clones would be worth the risk of mental instability and free will. What if they created a clone that didn't want to fight in the war? They'd have to alter it with genetic tampering, which is unethical. But then again, when was anything ONI did ethical? Let's just hope that IF clones are involved AT ALL that they don't end up like the Clone Troopers from Star Wars. That just doesn't seem right. I think of the Halo Story this way: The games tell a particular part of the story. The books then tell other, smaller stories and backstory that make the whole thing complete. They don't necessarily have to interact. They do, but not always. >Saint

Message Index

Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading	Metatron	9/1/04 10:27 p.m.
another long post worth reading... *NM*	zeldincht	9/1/04 10:43 p.m.
Re: Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading	zeldincht	9/1/04 10:50 p.m.
Re: Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading	Metatron	9/1/04 10:58 p.m.
THEORY THIEF!	Hextall27	9/1/04 11:00 p.m.
Of course...	Hextall27	9/1/04 11:08 p.m.
Re: THEORY THIEF!	Metatron	9/1/04 11:42 p.m.
Re: THEORY THIEF!	Hextall27	9/2/04 10:47 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/1/04 11:09 p.m.
ONI knew of Halo	MC vince	9/1/04 11:34 p.m.
Re: ONI knew of Halo	PsycoJoe	9/2/04 12:19 a.m.
Re: ONI knew of Halo	Metatron	9/2/04 12:37 a.m.
My reply (ot)	PsycoJoe	9/2/04 9:58 a.m.
Re: My reply (ot)	Metatron	9/2/04 3:00 p.m.
Re: My reply (ot)	PsycoJoe	9/2/04 10:33 p.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/1/04 11:38 p.m.
I remember somewhere...	Saint	9/1/04 11:40 p.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/1/04 11:46 p.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 12:01 a.m.
I think you mean TL 34.	Saint	9/2/04 12:03 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/2/04 12:12 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 12:29 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/2/04 12:40 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 1:13 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/2/04 1:28 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 2:04 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Ain Soph Aur	9/2/04 2:18 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 3:41 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 4:05 a.m.
Re: Chiron	Wado SG	9/4/04 10:10 a.m.
Halo: Indeed a tragedy...	Alex Cross	9/4/04 1:11 p.m.
Search.	Saint	9/2/04 7:38 a.m.
Re: One Major Problem	tLove	9/2/04 3:07 p.m.
Re: One Major Problem	Metatron	9/2/04 3:18 p.m.
Chiron TL34	K-man	9/2/04 4:46 a.m.
Canon Fodder. *semi-long*	Saint	9/1/04 11:37 p.m.
Re: Canon Fodder. *semi-long*	Metatron	9/2/04 3:54 a.m.
I wonder...	Saint	9/2/04 7:33 a.m.
Edit.	Saint	9/2/04 7:57 a.m.
Re: I wonder...	Metatron	9/2/04 1:13 p.m.
Well...	Saint	9/2/04 6:45 p.m.
Lots of puzzles...	Alex Cross	9/2/04 1:00 a.m.
Re: Lots of puzzles...	Metatron	9/2/04 1:43 a.m.
Re: Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading	KiGlow	9/2/04 1:42 a.m.
Evil Masterchief = Spartan 117 clone?	Steve_Oll	9/2/04 8:03 a.m.
If there's one thing I hate...	Saint	9/2/04 8:06 a.m.
Re: I agree...	Steve_Oll	9/2/04 8:13 a.m.
Re: Clones and Lies: A Theory Worth Reading	monctezuma	9/2/04 10:45 a.m.
Another problem	gspawn	9/2/04 12:09 p.m.
Re: Another problem	Metatron	9/2/04 1:20 p.m.
But as I said...	gspawn	9/2/04 4:47 p.m.
Re: But as I said...	Metatron	9/2/04 6:22 p.m.
Re: But as I said...	Ain Soph Aur	9/2/04 9:17 p.m.
Re: Another problem *FS spoilers in this post*	Beasty	9/3/04 12:05 p.m.
Hey Metatron...	Alex Cross	9/2/04 6:30 p.m.
*Chrion is on MARS* *NM*	zeldincht	9/2/04 10:48 p.m.
Re: Hey Metatron...	Metatron	9/3/04 5:23 p.m.