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Re: Wall of text alert
Posted By: OldNick <nmascall@btinternet.com>	Date: 4/22/12 7:03 a.m.
In Response To: Wall of text alert (scarab) Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'd been wondering about the python question. Apologies for not answering you point-by-point, but I'm quite clearly not qualified to debate comparative and developmental anatomy with you. My own particular interest is in the evolutionary history of the species, where there's much more scope for hand-waving and wild mass guessing ; ) It always seemed to me that the sangheili mouth arrangement was so specialised that it had to be the starting point for any attempt to build a speculative evolutionary history for the species. So it seems reasonable to start by positing a small animal which fed by attaching itself to the skin of a larger one - a dry-land analogue of the lamprey or hagfish - an independently mobile parasite/scavenger. If its size increased beyond a certain point (relative to potential hosts) it would have to drop the attached-parasite role and concentrate on scavenging. To explain an increase in size we could postulate an evolutionary arms race in which hosts acquired thicker, tougher skin/scales and the proto-sangheili countered with larger mouthparts, requiring larger bodies. Given this chain of hypotheses, we can semi-plausibly end up with the pre-sentient scavenger I described. I'm assuming that the host species and their direct predators are analogous to large herbivorous and carnivorous dinosaurs - hence you'd need very, very large, sharp claws on very large muscular limbs to carve off edible chunks, at which point you've got the equipment to set up in the direct predation business for yourself. We still need to explain why they couldn't simply feed on open wounds or soft parts, so I suppose we could hypothesise that these are immediately infested by something too dangerous to mess with in large numbers. This could also justify a) sealing the mouth-parts to the body while eating and b) developing front-limb dexterity to defend the mouth-parts, especially the everted breathing tubes (and the eyes) from smaller scavengers while attached to feed. I suppose you could also use this idea to justify your single-orifice theory on the grounds of minimising vulnerability. I have to say that though I admire your theory's ingenuity and detail (clearly biology is one of your strong subjects, while it's one of my weak ones) I'm reserving judgement on this. I find myself curiously reluctant to directly investigate the question of whether the Arbiter has an anus as Sl'askia claims - it feels (to me) like an unpardonable affront to his monumental dignity. But I wholly agree that the gut has to be at least partly evertable in order to make the mouth anatomy work at all, and my failure to make this imaginative leap was why I never pursued these ideas when I first came up with them. There's at least one precedent (us) for the step from scavenger to cooperative opportunistic predator. And the vulnerability caused by the need to attach for several minutes at least in order to feed would mean that cooperative behaviour could (as you say) confer a large evolutionary advantage - in fact, the longer the attachment period, the larger the advantage. At a later stage, there'd also be a powerful advantage in preparing (and perhaps cooking) food for direct ingestion - less time spent eating means more time available for other things. Add in some genetic nudging by the Forerunners (maybe after social, cooperative behaviour starts to emerge) and you have a story which sounds at least vaguely plausible to me. I know that this is a long shaky chain of hypotheses, but I'm just trying to retcon what I see.

Message Index

Halo 4 images released	2900d4u	4/20/12 7:23 a.m.
All I have say is: WOW! *NM*	BWOLoneWolf	4/20/12 7:36 a.m.
So...	Nikko B201	4/20/12 8:02 a.m.
Re: So...	Revenant1988	4/20/12 8:03 a.m.
Re: So...	pete_the_duck	4/20/12 8:12 a.m.
Re: So...	Bry	4/20/12 8:14 a.m.
Re: So...	mc_leprechaun	4/20/12 9:24 a.m.
Re: So...	Joony Joon	4/20/12 11:45 a.m.
More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/20/12 12:14 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/20/12 12:16 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/20/12 12:29 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/20/12 12:40 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	uberfoop	4/20/12 12:48 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/20/12 2:57 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	scarab	4/20/12 3:59 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 5:13 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	scarab	4/21/12 5:03 a.m.
There's one thing Halo can never claim...	Gravemind	4/20/12 7:14 p.m.
Re: There's one thing Halo can never claim...	Metalingus627	4/20/12 7:55 p.m.
Re: There's one thing Halo can never claim...	General Vagueness	4/23/12 12:36 a.m.
^^^^^^^^^^^ *NM*	mattroe	4/23/12 12:57 a.m.
Simple!	uberfoop	4/23/12 1:05 a.m.
Re: There's one thing Halo can never claim...	TDSpiral	4/23/12 10:41 a.m.
Re: There's one thing Halo can never claim...	padraig08	4/23/12 11:22 a.m.
Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	TDSpiral	4/23/12 10:36 a.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Leviathan	4/23/12 11:12 a.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Gilver	4/23/12 11:22 a.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Leviathan	4/23/12 11:25 a.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	uberfoop	4/23/12 11:31 a.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Leviathan	4/23/12 7:10 p.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	TDSpiral	4/23/12 4:24 p.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Leviathan	4/23/12 7:31 p.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	General Vagueness	4/23/12 11:28 p.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	General Vagueness	4/23/12 11:13 p.m.
Re: Actually, a lot of weapons look the same	Gravemind	4/24/12 2:30 a.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 1:07 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Hawaiian Pig	4/20/12 1:12 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Cody Miller	4/20/12 2:00 p.m.
You guys... :-) *NM*	scarab	4/20/12 4:01 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Dervish	4/20/12 1:29 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/20/12 1:49 p.m.
District 9	scarab	4/21/12 6:07 a.m.
I don't see the issue	The BS Police	4/20/12 2:05 p.m.
Re: I don't see the issue	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 2:52 p.m.
Re: I don't see the issue	Beckx	4/20/12 2:56 p.m.
Still doesn't explain the Brutes cosmetic changes	The BS Police	4/20/12 3:40 p.m.
Re: Still doesn't explain the Brutes cosmetic chan	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 5:10 p.m.
Canon explanantion for midget brutes.	NsU Soldier	4/21/12 2:14 a.m.
Re: Canon explanantion for midget brutes.	tucsonbatman	4/23/12 11:23 a.m.
The Halo 2 brute looks by far the best. *NM*	bryan newman	4/20/12 6:03 p.m.
There's something about that Reach Brute.	Gravemind	4/21/12 2:41 a.m.
Re: I don't see the issue	ArchedThunder	4/22/12 2:46 p.m.
Re: I don't see the issue	TDSpiral	4/22/12 3:58 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Dervish	4/20/12 6:00 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	scarab	4/21/12 5:47 a.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	OldNick	4/21/12 8:09 a.m.
Wall of text alert	scarab	4/21/12 5:35 p.m.
Re: Wall of text alert	OldNick	4/22/12 7:03 a.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/21/12 12:06 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	scarab	4/21/12 4:16 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/21/12 4:31 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/21/12 2:32 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	scarab	4/21/12 4:32 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/21/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/21/12 6:22 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/21/12 8:02 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/21/12 11:45 p.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Sl'askia	4/22/12 12:46 a.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	Quirel	4/22/12 2:14 a.m.
Re: More concerned about the fact....	ArchedThunder	4/22/12 2:48 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	bluerunner	4/20/12 8:01 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Nikko B201	4/20/12 8:04 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	TDSpiral	4/20/12 11:18 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Deafhawk36	4/20/12 11:10 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Chris101b	4/20/12 11:28 a.m.
Better link, more imgs	2900d4u	4/20/12 8:20 a.m.
*shivers* *NM*	thebruce0	4/20/12 8:58 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	7he grunt w/a plasma pistol	4/20/12 8:26 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Hedgemony	4/20/12 8:28 a.m.
What the heck is this thing?	sharkface217	4/23/12 3:39 a.m.
Re: What the heck is this thing?	Quirel	4/23/12 3:49 a.m.
*cough*Atlas*cough* *NM	Nikko B201	4/23/12 4:16 a.m.
Re: *cough*Atlas*cough* *NM	Beckx	4/23/12 10:17 a.m.
Re: *cough*Atlas*cough* *NM	SonofMacPhisto	4/23/12 4:37 p.m.
Re: *cough*Atlas*cough* *NM	Beckx	4/23/12 5:06 p.m.
Re: What the heck is this thing?	MacGyver10	4/23/12 8:50 a.m.
Loving the HUD *NM*	mattroe	4/20/12 8:53 a.m.
HUD details...	bluerunner	4/20/12 9:51 a.m.
DMR	dogcom	4/20/12 10:10 a.m.
No reticles?	OldNick	4/20/12 11:16 a.m.
Re: No reticles?	bluerunner	4/20/12 11:40 a.m.
I would say it's Forerunner Vision	Chris101b	4/20/12 11:35 a.m.
I think you might be right...	Hyokin	4/20/12 12:30 p.m.
Re: I think you might be right...	Chris101b	4/20/12 4:45 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	iForge	4/20/12 8:55 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	thebruce0	4/20/12 9:09 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	iForge	4/20/12 9:25 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 9:15 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Tex	4/20/12 10:17 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	JDQuackers	4/20/12 12:02 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	ArchedThunder	4/20/12 9:29 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	popcornintulsa	4/20/12 10:06 a.m.
^^With you with that^^ *NM*	BWOLoneWolf	4/20/12 10:13 a.m.
Re: The Jackals are pure canon too *img*	Hedgemony	4/20/12 10:24 a.m.
Re: The Jackals are pure canon too *img*	Tex	4/20/12 10:26 a.m.
Re: Damn, you'd rock that too:) *NM*	Hedgemony	4/20/12 10:27 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	davidfuchs	4/20/12 10:21 a.m.
I have to agree	nomis78	4/20/12 10:37 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	ArchedThunder	4/20/12 11:44 a.m.
hyperbole is lulz *IMG*	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 12:35 p.m.
But they at least looked like arthropods then....	Sl'askia	4/20/12 12:41 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 12:48 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	uberfoop	4/20/12 12:48 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 12:52 p.m.
I'm with you, SoMP. *NM*	Louis Wu	4/20/12 2:57 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	serpx	4/20/12 3:12 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	General Vagueness	4/23/12 12:13 a.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/23/12 5:40 a.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	ArchedThunder	4/23/12 10:23 a.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/23/12 1:40 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	General Vagueness	4/23/12 11:04 p.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	ArchedThunder	4/24/12 7:33 a.m.
Re: But they at least looked like arthropods then.	General Vagueness	4/26/12 5:10 p.m.
Guess you forgot about this page then eh?	Sl'askia	4/23/12 12:09 p.m.
lol	Louis Wu	4/23/12 12:23 p.m.
Re: lol	uberfoop	4/23/12 12:27 p.m.
Re: lol	Louis Wu	4/23/12 12:43 p.m.
Re: lol	bluerunner	4/23/12 12:48 p.m.
Ditto	Sl'askia	4/23/12 5:27 p.m.
Re: Ditto	Hedgemony	4/23/12 5:31 p.m.
Re: Ditto	General Vagueness	4/23/12 11:46 p.m.
Re: lol	Cody Miller	4/23/12 1:10 p.m.
Re: lol	Vandle Valsher	4/23/12 2:36 p.m.
Re: lol	General Vagueness	4/23/12 11:43 p.m.
Re: lol	Sl'askia	4/24/12 12:12 a.m.
Re: lol	Quirel	4/24/12 12:22 a.m.
Re: lol	JDQuackers	4/24/12 9:51 a.m.
Yeah that's what I meant	Sl'askia	4/24/12 12:10 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	munky-058	4/20/12 1:51 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	ArchedThunder	4/22/12 2:56 p.m.
Elites Make me sadface	Metalingus627	4/20/12 1:16 p.m.
Agreed so much *NM*	Hawaiian Pig	4/20/12 1:22 p.m.
Aye	Anton1792	4/20/12 2:15 p.m.
Re: Elites Make me sadface	Phoenix_9286	4/20/12 2:20 p.m.
Re: Elites Make me sadface	Leviathan	4/20/12 3:18 p.m.
Re: Elites Make me sadface	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 5:36 p.m.
^ IMO 1 of the best criticisms of the elite update *NM*	thebruce0	4/20/12 3:23 p.m.
Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it :(	Tex	4/20/12 10:19 a.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	iForge	4/20/12 10:29 a.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	kanbo	4/20/12 11:07 a.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	Deafhawk36	4/20/12 11:11 a.m.
While I'm having nightmares of this	TDSpiral	4/20/12 11:14 a.m.
Re: While I'm having nightmares of this	JDQuackers	4/20/12 12:04 p.m.
And it begins....	padraig08	4/20/12 11:21 a.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	Tex	4/20/12 11:27 a.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	Metalingus627	4/20/12 1:02 p.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	kanbo	4/20/12 2:20 p.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 2:27 p.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	General Vagueness	4/22/12 11:52 p.m.
Re: Grunts look scary and mean and I dont like it	Beckx	4/20/12 11:31 a.m.
We got Wretches! :U *NM*	munky-058	4/20/12 10:49 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Hawaiian Pig	4/20/12 11:00 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Beckx	4/20/12 11:19 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	yakaman	4/20/12 1:16 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Quirel	4/20/12 3:13 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Beckx	4/20/12 3:24 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	thebruce0	4/20/12 3:52 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	thebruce0	4/20/12 3:54 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	General Vagueness	4/23/12 12:25 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Kalamari	4/20/12 11:23 a.m.
The new grunt looks oddly familiar....	bluerunner	4/20/12 11:52 a.m.
Re: The new grunt looks oddly familiar....	Hedgemony	4/20/12 11:59 a.m.
Re: The new grunt looks oddly familiar....	Pkmnrulz240	4/20/12 3:47 p.m.
Re: The new grunt looks oddly familiar....	JDQuackers	4/20/12 12:06 p.m.
=(	Phoenix_9286	4/20/12 12:12 p.m.
Re: =(	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 12:37 p.m.
Re: =(	Phoenix_9286	4/20/12 12:51 p.m.
Re: =(	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 12:54 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Quirel	4/20/12 12:14 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	JDQuackers	4/20/12 12:28 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Mid7night	4/20/12 1:42 p.m.
Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	Leviathan	4/20/12 2:23 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	mnemesis	4/20/12 2:59 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	Leviathan	4/20/12 3:09 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	bluerunner	4/20/12 3:16 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	Quirel	4/20/12 3:17 p.m.
You don't understand Sangheilli mating rituals	Leviathan	4/20/12 3:20 p.m.
Re: You don't understand Sangheilli mating rituals	bluerunner	4/20/12 3:41 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	padraig08	4/20/12 4:17 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	Leviathan	4/20/12 4:51 p.m.
Re: Love the Spec Ops Elite, grunt's got an issue.	padraig08	4/20/12 8:38 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	CaneCutter	4/20/12 4:50 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Phoenix_9286	4/20/12 5:19 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	CaneCutter	4/20/12 5:28 p.m.
Oops! You said right shoulder :| *NM*	CaneCutter	4/20/12 5:39 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	tucsonbatman	4/20/12 5:32 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	SonofMacPhisto	4/20/12 7:44 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Phoenix_9286	4/20/12 8:18 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	343winks.	4/20/12 9:37 p.m.
Forerunner integration.	Leviathan	4/20/12 9:56 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Metalingus627	4/21/12 4:44 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	343winks.	4/21/12 8:41 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Metalingus627	4/21/12 10:51 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	343winks.	4/22/12 12:55 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Metalingus627	4/22/12 12:58 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/21/12 1:10 p.m.
Some of my Likes and Dislikes.	The Lionheart	4/22/12 3:38 a.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	StealthyMangos	4/23/12 2:24 p.m.
Re: Halo 4 images released	GrimBrother One	4/23/12 3:15 p.m.
prophet/grunt/elite	nillapuddin	4/23/12 4:41 p.m.