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Re: Boo this man. *longish*
Posted By: Gravemind <kuukan_no_kage@yahoo.com>Date: 4/25/11 2:35 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Boo this man. *longish* (Narcogen)


: For me, a big part of what makes Halo 1 superior to Reach is its setting,
: characters, and story.

For me, it's not just those things. It's the gameplay as well. Reach may play better than Halo 2 & 3, but it falls short of Halo 1.

: I think Loadouts is an improvement on Equipment, and I think it's a fun idea.

AAs are better than equipment in terms of execution, though TBH I would've rather had things go back to the classic Golden Tripod. The addition of a fourth leg wasn't needed.

: Reach has greater visual fidelity-- it's just that, by
: and large, the subject of Reach's art is just not as interesting to me as
: that of Halo 1 and Halo 2.

It's also gritty, grainy, and fuzzy-looking as opposed to the sharp, clean, clear graphics of prior Halo games.

: So... a game that plays like Reach, looks like Reach, but has the art,
: setting, and characters of Halo 1? I'd buy that in a hot second.

If I wanted a game that played like Reach, I'd play Reach. When I play Halo 1, I want to play a game that feels like Halo 1. I never got the whole "Wouldn't it be great if Game X played like Game Y?" thing. It's like when people say they want Halo to be more like Call of Duty, with killstreaks and perks and so on. Granted, Halo with CoD-style gameplay would be a more radical departure than a Halo 1 remake that played like Reach (except maybe no armor abilties). In fact, Reach plays more like Halo 1 than any other Halo game (again, ignoring AAs).

However, Reach does not play like Halo 1. "Similar" does not mean "the same." It has a totally different feel to it, just as all the other Halo games have a different feel from all the others. Even if I were to take Halo 2, 3, or Reach, eliminate all the gameplay factors and weapons that weren't in Halo 1 (or re-add in the case of fall damage, which was absent in H2 & 3, or the AR, which was absent in H2), and mod the weapon damage and accuracy to where they were like their Halo counterparts, it still wouldn't keep them from feeling different from the original. It'd be like recreating the levels from Super Mario Bros. but using SMB3's assets. It may look like SMB, but it'll still feel like SMB3, even if we keep the powerups limited to the mushroom, fire flower, and star.

As far as I'm concerned, Halo 1 remade using Reach's assets will be nothing more than an impostor, a mere Reach expansion masquerading as the original game. It might look prettier (the grainy/fuzzy Reach aesthetic notwithstanding), but in won't play or feel the same. It won't really be Halo 1.

: Halo 1's human vehicles are indestructible, and enemy vehicles cannot be
: boarded. That's a great Halo feature that came after H1, and I wouldn't
: want to give that up. It probably requires a bit less tweaking of Halo 1's
: encounters than the jetpack would.

Don't forget that all vehicles are indestructible in MP. I don't really mind that, though. Vehicles never felt overpowered in Halo 1. Applying the damage meter possessed by the Covie vehicles in Campaign, to all vehicles in all modes wouldn't require changing much of anything, though. I don't mind the lack of boarding, either.

: Halo 1's arsenal, on the Covenant side, is a bit thin: plasma pistol, plasma
: rifle, powerful single-wield Needler, and a non-player-usable FRG. There
: might be a legitimate role in the campaign for some of the newer weapons,
: either from Reach or other games in the series. Given the equivalencies it
: might not be a huge improvement, rather just a touch of variety.

I like how streamlined Halo 1's arsenal is. The expanded arsenals of later games were full of redundant weapons. The Covies not having their own long-range precision weapons in Halo 1 didn't detract from the game. Would it be nice if they could fight back at longer ranges? Yes. Would I mind the Carbine or beam rifle being in the game? Probably. (Incidentally, this guy, via a simple mod, made the Covenant far more effective at mid range without adding any new weapons.)

: I've no idea what, if anything, 343i has planned in this respect. I tend to
: think that a re-skinning of H1 without other modifications isn't in the
: cards, and I've written that before.

: That means porting Halo 1's rendering engine, made to run on
: the Xbox's Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU, using shared memory, and porting it
: to run on the 360's PowerPC CPU and ATI GPU. The thing is, that engine has
: already made its way onto that hardware-- in the form of Halo 3, Halo:ODST
: and Halo:Reach. There's little sense, and quite a lot of inefficiency, in
: doing that job over in order to keep elements in Halo 1 that have already
: been iterated several times in Halo: Reach.

"That means porting Perfect Dark's engine, made to run on the the N64's NEC VR4300 CPU and porting it to run on the 360's PowerPC CPU and ATI GPU. The thing is, that engine has already made its way onto that hardware, in the form of Perfect Dark Zero.* Etc., etc."

*NOTE: Except it's not the same engine, just like how, contrary to your statement, Halo 2, 3, and Reach all use different engines. Different engines, different feel, different games.

There are no technical hurdles to making an HD port of Halo 1 with online MP and co-op using the Halo 1 engine that can't be easily overcome. If 4J Studios can do it for PD, then 343i can do it for Halo 1.

: The old game is already out there, running in emulation.

And no XBL capability. And like I said to others, don't suggest Halo PC or XBC. The former's not an option for me (my computer isn't so great, plus H1PC's netcode sucks from what I here anyway), and the latter is just horrible.

: I don't think
: there's room for a product between that and a full rebuild on the Reach
: engine; the cost-benefit analysis isn't favorable. If all you're talking
: about is a texture upgrade-- Halo 1 HD-- I'd probably pay five bucks for
: it, as I'd consider that an upgrade to a game I already own several copies
: of-- one on Mac, two on PC, a couple of Xbox 1 discs, and two Games on
: Demand copies for different 360s.

You could say that for any ports, enhanced or otherwise. We have Super Mario All-Stars. There's the Playstatin Classics HD line, which includes the God of War I & II Collection and the upcoming Ico & Shadow of the Colossus Collection. Final Fantasy IV has been re-released several times, first as a straight port on the PS1, then as an enhanced port on the GBA, and now on the PSP as part of the FFIV Complete Collection. We have an HD, XBL-capable Perfect Dark port for XBLA. We have the TMNT Arcade game on XBLA (with online co-op!). We also have Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, and Marathon on XBLA, all with online MP.

This notion that, for whatever reason, Halo 1 can't get the Perfect Dark treatment (HD + online MP and sold as a $10-15 XBLA download) just seems asinine to me.

: Now, a port of the Halo 1 campaign to the Reach engine? I'd probably at least
: consider paying full new title price for that, and if it was something
: less than that, I'd say it's a guaranteed purchase.

I wouldn't touch it with a ten-meter cattle prod.

: I tend to think the
: portion of the market that is so completely devoted to Halo 1's original
: experience, including all the elements that wouldn't be changed in a
: straight port: physics, etc-- is too small to justify even the smaller
: expense, whereas a more complete upgrade feels less like a ripoff and
: would appeal to a broader segment of Halo fandom.

Replace "Halo" with "Perfect Dark" and I think you'll be able to figure out my general feeling regarding that statement. In fact, if Perfect Dark was deserving of an HD port (an a successful one, too, with well over 300,000 copies downloaded in 2010), then Halo 1, the game that single-handedly built the Xbox brand and sold over twice as many copies as Perfect Dark (and according to Metacritic is also tied with PD — and Metroid Prime — as best-rated FPS ever), sure as hell is deserving as well. I can guaran-damn-tee Halo 1 HD would sell as least as well as Perfect Dark HD.

And that's all I have to say about that.

http://shadowofthevoid.wordpress.com


Message Index



Replies:

Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 12:26 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeMoorpheusl9 4/23/11 12:39 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 1:06 p.m.
     11th Suggestion.Bones153 4/23/11 12:44 p.m.
           Re: 11th Suggestion.padraig08 4/23/11 1:16 p.m.
           Re: 12th Suggestion.DMFanella 4/23/11 1:27 p.m.
           "I never want a remake. Period." Mentality.NsU Soldier 4/23/11 7:23 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakePkmnrulz240 4/23/11 12:53 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 1:15 p.m.
     One Amendmentpadraig08 4/23/11 1:10 p.m.
           Re: One AmendmentDani 4/23/11 1:18 p.m.
                 Re: One Amendmentpadraig08 4/23/11 1:31 p.m.
                       I remember thatSEspider 4/25/11 1:30 a.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeTaco Power 4/23/11 1:42 p.m.
           Would prefer it remasted than remade meself *NM*Firestorm12 4/23/11 1:50 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeCody Miller 4/23/11 1:45 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 2:03 p.m.
                 Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeCody Miller 4/23/11 2:07 p.m.
                       Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 2:18 p.m.
                 Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeRC Master 4/23/11 3:53 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDHalo 4/23/11 2:11 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDHalo 4/23/11 2:08 p.m.
           We can rebuild it, we have the technologySonGoharotto 4/23/11 3:26 p.m.
                 Argh, want to reply to OP... *NM*SonGoharotto 4/23/11 3:29 p.m.
                 Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologyQuirel 4/23/11 6:01 p.m.
                       Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologySonGoharotto 4/24/11 8:09 a.m.
                             Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologyQuirel 4/24/11 12:28 p.m.
                                   Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologySonGoharotto 4/24/11 2:15 p.m.
                                         Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologyQuirel 4/24/11 3:38 p.m.
                                               Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologySonGoharotto 4/24/11 4:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologyQuirel 4/24/11 10:22 p.m.
                                                           Re: We can rebuild it, we have the technologySonGoharotto 4/25/11 4:18 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeBanditORR 4/23/11 2:13 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeDani 4/23/11 2:18 p.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeQuirel 4/23/11 5:49 p.m.
     "Softly Does It"Hyokin 4/23/11 2:17 p.m.
           Re: "Softly Does It"Dani 4/23/11 2:29 p.m.
                 Re: "Softly Does It"Hyokin 4/23/11 2:40 p.m.
                 Re: "Softly Does It"Kermit 4/23/11 2:58 p.m.
           Re: "Softly Does It"The BS Police 4/23/11 5:21 p.m.
                 Re: "Softly Does It"Hyokin 4/23/11 9:41 p.m.
                       Re: "Softly Does It"The BS Police 4/24/11 4:17 a.m.
                             Re: "Softly Does It"Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) 4/24/11 5:21 a.m.
                                   Re: "Softly Does It"The BS Police 4/24/11 6:19 a.m.
                                         Re: "Softly Does It"Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) 4/24/11 6:47 a.m.
                                               Re: "Softly Does It"The BS Police 4/24/11 7:13 a.m.
                                                     You just don't get it.Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) 4/24/11 7:29 a.m.
                                                           Re: You just don't get it.The BS Police 4/24/11 7:46 a.m.
                                                                 Re: You just don't get it.Kermit 4/24/11 8:37 a.m.
                                                                 Re: You just don't get it.Hyokin 4/24/11 11:59 a.m.
     I just don't care.uberfoop 4/23/11 3:16 p.m.
     Boo this man. *longish*Gravemind 4/23/11 6:23 p.m.
           Addendum.Gravemind 4/23/11 6:34 p.m.
           Re: Boo this man. *longish*Dani 4/23/11 6:52 p.m.
                 Re: Boo this man. *longish*DEEP NNN 4/23/11 7:05 p.m.
                       Re: Boo this man. *longish*Cody Miller 4/23/11 7:15 p.m.
                             Re: Boo this man. *longish*DEEP NNN 4/23/11 7:22 p.m.
           Re: Boo this man. *longish*Narcogen 4/24/11 11:12 p.m.
                 Re: Boo this man. *longish*Gravemind 4/25/11 2:35 p.m.
                       Re: Boo this man. *longish*Narcogen 4/26/11 1:48 a.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeFyreWulff 4/23/11 6:59 p.m.
           I should addFyreWulff 4/23/11 7:02 p.m.
                 Re: I should addDani 4/23/11 7:16 p.m.
                       Re: I should addFyreWulff 4/23/11 7:21 p.m.
                             Re: I should addGeneral Vagueness 4/23/11 9:42 p.m.
                                   Re: I should addThe BS Police 4/24/11 8:36 a.m.
                                         Re: I should addGeneral Vagueness 4/24/11 11:09 a.m.
                                               Re: I should adduberfoop 4/24/11 2:06 p.m.
           Wait, what?uberfoop 4/24/11 2:25 a.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeThe BS Police 4/24/11 4:12 a.m.
                 Before somebody takes that comment out of contextThe BS Police 4/24/11 6:26 a.m.
                       Re: Before somebody takes that comment out of contDEEP NNN 4/24/11 8:08 a.m.
                             Re: Before somebody takes that comment out of contThe BS Police 4/24/11 8:21 a.m.
           Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeGravemind 4/24/11 12:02 p.m.
     No new multiplayer!ElzarTheBam 4/23/11 7:00 p.m.
     Re: Ten Suggestions For A CErtain RemakeSEspider 4/25/11 1:23 a.m.
     "DUMB" are we?!SEspider 4/25/11 2:46 a.m.
           ::facepalm::Louis Wu 4/25/11 7:45 a.m.
                 Re: ::facepalm::Quirel 4/25/11 9:41 a.m.
                 Re: ::facepalm::CaneCutter 4/25/11 10:52 a.m.
                 Re: ::facepalm::Narcogen 4/26/11 1:53 a.m.
                       Re: ::facepalm::Dani 4/26/11 2:47 a.m.
                             Re: ::facepalm::Kermit 4/26/11 9:44 a.m.
                             Re: ::facepalm::Narcogen 4/27/11 12:12 a.m.
     HBO: Sarcasm? On the Internet? Impossible. *NM*General Vagueness 4/25/11 7:34 a.m.



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