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My Views...
Posted By: Leviathan <levihoffmeier@gmail.com>	Date: 10/26/10 12:21 p.m.
In Response To: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach (General Battuta) I agree with you on a lot of your specific points, but I guess certain aspects had a more powerful affect on me than you, possibly, and that made me see the totality of the games differently. Perhaps part of our different views (especially in regards to Halo 3 and Reach) is down to visuals - my brain relies heavily on visual cues... I'd say Halo CE was grim... but almost every level was full of beautiful colors and vistas, and marines would yell with courage and joke around as you charged ahead, and the most important thing in making Halo CE NOT grim for me, was the fact that I always felt like I could fight back - that no matter what was thrown at me, I could take it. Halo 2 and 3 had this too, but it didn't make me feel the danger as well, so that 'taking it' didn't mean as much emotionally. Foehammer's fall is extremely grim through - probably one of the strongest in the series, because of the hope built up for her arrival. Halo 2, I think we agree a lot here. It's strangely very light in tone on Earth despite what's happening in the opening levels. That's one of my biggest faults with 2. But I think the Arbiter levels and the later levels of the game ARE very grim, grimmer than Halo CE in parts. Almost all the Arbiter levels, especially Quarantine Zone really made me feel betrayed and lost in a bigger battle, that in some ways, the battle was out of my hands. Oh... and High Charity was freaking grim! I think it felt that way because the Flood seemed unstoppable in this game, smarter, and intent on bigger real estate. But even with these parts, as a whole, it's wasn't as grim as Halo CE, for me. Halo: ODST for me, is the grimmest of all the games. It's oppressively grim. The darkness and bleakness of the visuals, especially the city streets at night, with stark red fire in the sky between the black silhouettes. I get shivers just thinking about it. Don't even get me started on the music! The last mission had a lot of big moments too: each cruiser arriving felt momentously grim to me - with every new ship, our failure seemed more and more assured. And then seeing the Carrier burn through the city with Buck's reaction... whew. And then the ending - yeah it's happy and hopeful for OUR team, but Earth is still left on fire, and the last few shots don't let you forget it. But once again, it's still the night-hub that gets me the most. I found out THAT's what it feels like when humanity has gone, and the Covenant wins - its still very depressing for me to playthrough (and it should be!). Halo 3. I see all your points... but it's here that the visuals had a lot of impact for me and carried the weight of the smaller comments of things happening off screen like you mentioned. Seeing smoke plums in the background of the first level hints at some destruction... but when you see the Mombassa orbital elevator stretched across the country-side, that was a big reminder of the Covenant threat to me... It gets ridiculously grim in Voi though, because of the atmosphere, firstly. The vista of the Covenant utterly carving a giant hole in the planet, with an unnatural storm erupting around you, with civilians fighting and dying beside you, with a Covenant Armada mustering in sight, with you fighting on land that literally was burned away a few feet from you into a deep pit... Wow, all that, at once - that made me feel the Earth was in deep doo-doo. It climaxes for me when you reach the UNSC holdout before the AA gun - you see dying soldiers, you see others bent over, listening to any communications they can get on the radio... Then you keep fighting forward- you fight beside civilians (!), you see a Longsword go down, Truth is yelling crap at you, and the whole time your subwoofer is booming from this giant gun going off, killing your comrades. And in the end cinematic, despite the awesome effort, you fail! Sheesh! The storm is extremely grim to me (and my third favorite segment of the Halo games - first being the Maw run, the second being the Scarab battle before the Citadel). After Floodgate, Halo 3 returned to Halo CE's level of tone, with battles that had you had a chance to win, with backgrounds full of more colorful vistas, yet still with dark moments like Miranda's and Johnson's deaths along the way. So in total, I'd say Halo 3 equals Halo CE's grimness factor for the most part- but 'The Storm' pushes it over to a greater grimness. (There's also something to say about ODST retroactively making Halo 3 a little darker because you get to experience the dark night before hand...) Reach, for me, almost equalled ODST's darkness. The entire game just feels bleak and dark. From the vistas to the characters. Halo grew up (that's not necessarily a good thing - just a metaphor). The youthful hope is gone. It's about doing your job, and doing the best you can before death comes. Like Wu mentioned, the crash of the transport in Exodus had a mighty impact on me. But for me that was just a culmination of a string of events right before that, especially when you're on the Falcon gun watching Brutes break through UNSC lines and smashing them to pieces while some powerfully-fitting music plays... it's not even that big of deal in terms of epic proportions, but it's just one of those little things that's just perfect and nails what Bungie was going for. It was one of my main memories after the first playthrough. I could go on about Reach's grimness for a while, I think. It almost seems with every shot of the cinematography that Bungie was intent on ramping up the darkness that's always been present here and there in Halo. It's just oozing in darkness, visually - and that really affected me. So... From most grim to least, for me: Halo: ODST Reach (very close second) Halo 3 Halo: CE Halo 2

Shameless Plug

Message Index

Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	General Battuta	10/26/10 9:51 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Louis Wu	10/26/10 10:38 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	General Battuta	10/26/10 10:41 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 10:57 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	bluerunner	10/26/10 10:49 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Mazz	10/26/10 11:06 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 11:12 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	bluerunner	10/26/10 11:19 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Archilen	10/26/10 11:38 a.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 12:46 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Bry	10/26/10 1:35 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 2:06 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Bry	10/26/10 2:13 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 5:56 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	tucsonbatman	10/26/10 3:06 p.m.
agh frontpaged	General Battuta	10/26/10 10:50 a.m.
Hey what the hell?!	GrimBrother One	10/26/10 10:55 a.m.
Re: Hey what the hell?!	General Battuta	10/26/10 10:56 a.m.
Yeeeaaahhh. THAT'S what I'm talking about. ;-) *NM*	GrimBrother One	10/26/10 10:57 a.m.
that's better, we forgive you. *NM*	GrimBrother IV	10/26/10 11:43 a.m.
Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	uberfoop	10/26/10 11:38 a.m.
like this point	General Battuta	10/26/10 11:39 a.m.
Re: like this point	bluerunner	10/26/10 11:42 a.m.
Re: like this point	General Battuta	10/26/10 11:44 a.m.
Re: like this point	ManKitten	10/26/10 11:57 a.m.
Re: like this point	General Battuta	10/26/10 12:01 p.m.
cannot spell	General Battuta	10/26/10 12:02 p.m.
Re: like this point	Leisandir	10/28/10 9:34 a.m.
Re: like this point	Druke	10/26/10 12:08 p.m.
This, very much :) *NM*	thebruce0	10/26/10 1:12 p.m.
Ah, indeed.	ZackDark	10/26/10 5:08 p.m.
*pictures home alone moment* *NM*	thebruce0	10/27/10 8:33 a.m.
Alien vs Aliens	Wayward Spleen™	10/26/10 1:24 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	General Battuta	10/26/10 1:33 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	Tex	10/26/10 1:44 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	General Battuta	10/26/10 1:51 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	Wayward Spleen™	10/26/10 1:56 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	General Battuta	10/26/10 2:06 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	Tex	10/26/10 1:58 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	Beckx	10/26/10 2:14 p.m.
Re: Alien vs Aliens	Tex	10/26/10 2:53 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	Druke	10/26/10 12:18 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	Druke	10/26/10 12:20 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	General Battuta	10/26/10 12:20 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	Druke	10/26/10 12:29 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	thebruce0	10/26/10 1:14 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	10/26/10 1:18 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	General Battuta	10/26/10 1:22 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	Archilen	10/26/10 1:27 p.m.
Re: Halo 1 is more suggestive, too.	uberfoop	10/26/10 3:45 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	0postmortem0	10/26/10 12:05 p.m.
You know what I'd love? Covenant Commando.	RyanTheHeretic	10/26/10 12:14 p.m.
Re: You know what I'd love? Covenant Commando.	General Battuta	10/26/10 12:17 p.m.
Re: You know what I'd love? Covenant Commando.	GrimBrother One	10/26/10 1:53 p.m.
Re: You know what I'd love? Covenant Commando.	Bry	10/26/10 2:08 p.m.
Re: You know what I'd love? Covenant Commando.	topleybird	10/26/10 1:54 p.m.
I think I love you.	padraig08	10/26/10 5:08 p.m.
My Views...	Leviathan	10/26/10 12:21 p.m.
Re: My Views...	General Battuta	10/26/10 12:41 p.m.
Re: My Views...	mattroe	10/27/10 4:27 a.m.
Re: My Views...	Bry	10/27/10 7:04 a.m.
Re: My Views...	thebruce0	10/27/10 8:32 a.m.
Re: My Views...	General Battuta	10/27/10 8:45 a.m.
Re: My Views...	Bry	10/27/10 9:03 a.m.
Re: My Views...	SonofMacPhisto	10/27/10 1:32 p.m.
Re: My Views...	Bry	10/27/10 1:40 p.m.
Re: My Views...	JDQuackers	10/27/10 12:53 p.m.
Re: My Views...	Bry	10/27/10 1:10 p.m.
Re: Comparative Grimdark Levels, H1-Reach	Archilen	10/26/10 12:39 p.m.
Halo as a whole lacks grim dark	Hikaru-119	10/27/10 3:12 p.m.
Re: Halo as a whole lacks grim dark	General Battuta	10/27/10 7:01 p.m.
Re: Halo as a whole lacks grim dark	Hikaru-119	10/27/10 7:50 p.m.