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Bygones and such...
Posted By: opie301Date: 1/26/04 8:35 p.m.

In Response To: Re: End of the Evaluation (Nick)

: First off, integration doesn't take a long time. Secondly, just because
: they've chosen to use the Havok engine doesn't mean they've purchased the
: license yet, the evaluation comes with the full product and tech support.

So you're saying that, 10 months after Havok's release, 8 months after debuting a working game engine (with functional physics), and who knows how many months into a working game it's possible that a video game developer still has not purchased the lisence to the physics engine it has decided to use (if, in fact, Bungie is using it).

: 1) Yes, they did. Doesn't mean they didn't choose middleware. The physics
: engine in Halo wasn't as expansive as the Havok 2 engine and Bungie is
: looking to do more things with physics this time around. Yes, they have
: more time for Halo 2 and that means more time to focus on everything, not
: just physics. Eliminating the writing of a proprietary physics engine
: would save them lost of time to work on something else - like the story
: and levels.

I'd like to point out here that the people working on story boarding and level design are not the people that would be working on building a physics engine.

I'm not goint to argue that using someone else's physics engine, especially one as nice as Havok, is not an efficient process. But writing a proprietary physics engine affords the programmers a greater level of control over what the the game can do; the programmers can accomplish specific goals in a specific manner according to a specific vision.

: 2) Bungie has not specifically stated they aren't using the Havok physics
: engine, they haven't stated they don't want to use any middleware. Using
: Havok would be significant news but not if they're still running the
: evaluation. Yes, it says Bungie hasn't purchased a license yet.

I guess I just don't understand how this evaluation period works (and I'm not expert in the overall process of video game design). It seems to me the Bungie has long passed the step where they decide on which physics engine to use. And if, at that step, they had decided to use Havok, why haven't they bought the license yet?

: Reading what the site says, "currently being used in" would imply
: that the developers are using the technology in their current builds. It
: does not say "have chosen to release their game with" so the
: statement is technically accurate.

Fair enough. Of course, only technically accurate if Bungie was ever using the engine.

: And I don't know why people think it's some sort of impossibility that Bungie
: could use middleware and not write their own physics engine. Did Bungie
: write their own compression algorithm for maps? Nop, they used zLib, aka
: somebody else's code - middleware. Does that mean they didn't modify it?
: No, they could've if they wanted to.

We are not arguing that Bungie would never use middleware. It's not as if we're trying to tell you that Bungie is some sort of organic programmer, refusing to accept any code or tools that were not grown right there on the Microsoft compound free of pesticides and harsh chemicals. It's just that, in the specific case of the physics engine, it was the understanding, of more than a few of us, that Bungie was developing and implementing their own.

: You're the one who said it would be a significant bit of news, therefore
: saying it's a big issue. All in all I just thought it was a cool bit of
: news but everything is so hell-bent on believing Bungie would never dare
: use middleware it became something that was blown out of proportion. Oh
: well, last time I try to point anything out that I've not seen before.

If Bungie were to state tomorrow that they were using Havok it would be a significant bit of news. But the question of whether they're using it or not, should not have become this big of an issue. It's gotten blown out of proportion because you've chosen to defend this position like you're in a corner and Havok is your pup. This hasn't been an attack on you, just a little bit of doubt and disbelief.

Simply put, you've found an interesting and puzzling reference. Those of us who doubt this reference do so because we were under the impression that Bungie had developed their own Physics engine for Halo 2. There has been no mention by either party (Bungie or Havok) one way or the other (at least none that i can easily lay my hands on), so for the moment we'll just nod our heads, sigh, and move along.

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Message Index




Replies:

Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/25/04 9:24 p.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineHaloNater 1/25/04 9:28 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineSlimby 1/25/04 9:35 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineHaloNater 1/25/04 9:43 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineAlexander Valient 1/26/04 9:32 a.m.
           Havok 2 Physics Engine - MoviesNeurotic 1/25/04 9:38 p.m.
                 Re: Havok 2 Physics Engine - MoviesMantis819 1/25/04 9:50 p.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineRip-Saw 1/25/04 10:22 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/25/04 11:23 p.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineDark Bastion 1/25/04 10:27 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/25/04 11:36 p.m.
     Oh my.... thats cool.....Mr.Mongoose 1/25/04 10:53 p.m.
           Re: Oh my.... thats cool.....Nick 1/25/04 11:46 p.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineDan Chosich 1/25/04 10:58 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineLt Devon 1/25/04 11:01 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineSpartan_-X- 1/25/04 11:07 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineDylan 1/26/04 8:18 a.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/26/04 12:20 a.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineCount Zero 1/26/04 12:31 a.m.
           Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/26/04 12:56 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineWalshicus 1/26/04 10:22 a.m.
                       Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineNick 1/26/04 3:01 p.m.
           Not true.Blitzkrieg 1/26/04 12:07 p.m.
                 Re: Not true.Nick 1/26/04 3:05 p.m.
           not to mentionoddworld18 1/26/04 3:18 p.m.
                 Re: not to mentionBOLL 1/26/04 3:26 p.m.
                 Nop, it uses HavokNick 1/26/04 4:11 p.m.
                       Re: Nop, it uses Havokopie301 1/26/04 5:27 p.m.
                             Re: Nop, it uses HavokNick 1/26/04 5:37 p.m.
                                   Re: Nop, it uses HavokAztec 1/26/04 6:33 p.m.
                                         Re: Nop, it uses HavokNick 1/26/04 6:36 p.m.
                                         Re: Nop, it uses HavokKOPD 1/26/04 6:49 p.m.
                                               Re: Nop, it uses HavokNick 1/26/04 7:30 p.m.
                                   End of the Evaluationopie301 1/26/04 6:37 p.m.
                                         Well said. *NM*XLNC 1/26/04 7:07 p.m.
                                         Re: End of the EvaluationNick 1/26/04 7:24 p.m.
                                               Re: End of the EvaluationAztec 1/26/04 7:41 p.m.
                                               Bygones and such...opie301 1/26/04 8:35 p.m.
                                                     Re: Bygones and such...Nick 1/26/04 11:50 p.m.
                                                           Re: Bygones and such...KOPD 1/26/04 11:58 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Bygones and such...Nick 1/27/04 12:14 a.m.
                                                                       Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.KOPD 1/27/04 12:18 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.Nick 1/27/04 12:35 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.Aztec 1/27/04 12:40 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.KOPD 1/27/04 12:44 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.Aztec 1/27/04 12:54 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.KOPD 1/27/04 12:55 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Kind of a jerk, aren't ya.Stefander 1/27/04 1:36 a.m.
                                                           Re: Bygones and such...Aztec 1/27/04 12:02 a.m.
                                               Re: End of the EvaluationCount Zero 1/26/04 9:53 p.m.
                                                     Re: End of the EvaluationNick 1/26/04 10:23 p.m.
                                                           Re: End of the EvaluationWado SG 1/27/04 12:32 a.m.
                                                                 Re: End of the EvaluationNick 1/27/04 1:12 a.m.
                                                                       Re: End of the EvaluationCount Zero 1/27/04 3:01 a.m.
                                                                             Re: End of the EvaluationNick 1/27/04 4:02 a.m.
                                                                                   Enough.Louis Wu 1/27/04 5:56 a.m.
                                                                                         A final retort.Nick 1/27/04 7:02 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: A final retort.Louis Wu 1/27/04 7:26 a.m.
                                                                                                     This is exactly what I'm talking about.Nick 1/27/04 1:51 p.m.
                                                                                                           For the record...KOPD 1/27/04 2:06 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: This is exactly what I'm talking about.Count Zero 1/27/04 9:15 p.m.
                       Lies!Lt Devon 1/26/04 7:12 p.m.
     Re: Halo 2 Uses Havok 2 Physics EngineSledgefare 1/26/04 11:19 a.m.



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