Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues


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Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues

Posted By: Steve Levinson Date: 4/8/05 8:29 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues (J-M)

: Hmm, so why do plot critical characters die?
: Can't they just be pulled out of pattern-memory?
Obviously if everyone could be resurrected from PB's, there would be no point in killing your enemy. I have to give Bungie a lot of credit for working the saved game mechanism into the plot, unlike Halo where it's clearly a game-oriented device, but they missed the boat in explaining how this works. If it were truly a matter of resurrecting yourself from your saved pattern, you would resume the action where you left off, stepping over your dead body and going on to fight from the point where you were killed but not remembering how you got there. This isn't what happens. Let's go out on a limb here to try and make things fit. Let's suppose that both the UESC and the Pfhor have discovered Jjaro technology that makes it possible for anyone to save their pattern for emergency backup. The saved pattern can't prevent you from being killed or resurrect you from the dead, but it can be used to restore yourself from your saved state if you are mortally wounded - i.e. it's a medical device of last resort. We'll assume that it needs a living body to work, even if barely, so that it cannot confer immortality in and of itself. When it encounters a being with an implanted Jjaro cybernetic junction, however, it does more - it not only saves their pattern but establishes a link to that cybernetic junction. Should the being be killed, the PB downloads their memories from the cybernetic junction and beams them back in time to the moment the being last accessed the PB. This is an unintended consequence from the standpoint of the humans and Pfhor only - it is exactly what the Jjaro had intended.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues *NM* J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:38 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Bob-B-Q 4/2/05 2:29 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/2/05 8:20 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/3/05 7:03 a.m.

They also have a forced locality MrHen 4/3/05 8:52 a.m.

Does seem that way. J-M 4/3/05 10:33 a.m.

Continuity howekern 4/3/05 4:22 p.m.

Re: Continuity J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Re: Continuity howekern 4/5/05 3:31 p.m.

Copied identities MrHen 4/5/05 6:44 p.m.

Continuity again Forrest of B.org 4/5/05 7:29 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Chlazza 4/3/05 10:55 a.m.

Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 1:01 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Chlazza 4/3/05 2:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 3:19 p.m.

Copied people MrHen 4/3/05 5:37 p.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/3/05 6:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 8:49 p.m.

At least twice MrHen 4/4/05 5:34 a.m.

Google just shows those two. *NM* MrHen 4/4/05 5:57 a.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/6/05 11:41 a.m.

Re: Interesting. Chaemera 4/3/05 8:17 p.m.

modern AIs Josh M. 4/13/05 7:53 p.m.

daisy daisy.... *NM* duality 4/13/05 9:04 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Document 10/24/06 7:53 a.m.

copying neural networks? MrHen 10/24/06 4:45 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality howekern 4/5/05 4:03 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality blake37 4/5/05 4:25 p.m.

Yow... and I agree. MrHen 4/5/05 7:12 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 1:56 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Steve Levinson 4/6/05 7:44 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 5:50 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality MrHen 10/24/06 5:54 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Forrest of B.org 10/24/06 6:29 p.m.

Where is Leela's last message? MrHen 10/25/06 5:01 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/25/06 9:50 a.m.

they spelled it wrong... *NM* MrHen 10/25/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/24/06 8:23 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality ukimalefu 10/24/06 8:53 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality thermoplyae 10/24/06 10:49 p.m.

what? MrHen 10/25/06 5:21 a.m.

Re: what? thermoplyae 10/25/06 7:29 a.m.

misunderstandings... :P MrHen 10/25/06 8:45 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P Document 10/25/06 9:52 a.m.

thanks! you rock... MrHen 10/25/06 10:19 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:57 a.m.

oh, got it MrHen 10/25/06 12:59 p.m.

Re: oh, got it thermoplyae 10/25/06 1:26 p.m.

#alephone, eh? MrHen 10/25/06 8:30 p.m.

Re: #alephone, eh? thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:17 p.m.

Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth Forrest of B.org 10/25/06 4:15 p.m.

Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:14 p.m.

More numbers MrHen 10/25/06 5:18 a.m.

AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" ForceMorph 4/8/05 6:16 p.m.

Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" Forrest of B.org 4/8/05 8:05 p.m.

Shades of Mamoru Oshii... *NM* Bob-B-Q 4/9/05 5:56 a.m.

Re: "a planetary sized network" Document 10/25/06 4:51 p.m.

My likely-nonsense theory howekern 4/3/05 4:10 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Chaemera 4/3/05 8:28 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Durandal has you! *NM* ukimalefu 4/3/05 10:06 p.m.

Re: Durandal has you! J-M 4/3/05 10:18 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory MrHen 4/4/05 5:47 a.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Steve Levinson 4/4/05 12:19 p.m.

Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:20 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:22 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology MrHen 4/4/05 5:55 a.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Document 11/1/06 9:31 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/6/05 5:55 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 8:34 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/7/05 4:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 5:10 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/8/05 1:41 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Steve Levinson 4/8/05 8:29 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/11/05 1:57 p.m.

Doesn't account for the world reset. MrHen 4/13/05 5:40 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. Andrew Nagy (mb) 4/13/05 10:48 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. howekern 4/13/05 4:39 p.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. ukimalefu 4/14/05 12:52 p.m.

Yeah, but that's boring MrHen 4/15/05 8:03 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/11/05 3:11 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/11/05 3:42 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Document 10/24/06 8:49 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI AlexZander 10/30/06 2:35 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: Obviously if everyone could be resurrected from PB's, there would be no point : in killing your enemy. I have to give Bungie a lot of credit for working : the saved game mechanism into the plot, unlike Halo where it's clearly a : game-oriented device, but they missed the boat in explaining how this : works. If it were truly a matter of resurrecting yourself from your saved : pattern, you would resume the action where you left off, stepping over : your dead body and going on to fight from the point where you were killed : but not remembering how you got there. This isn't what happens. Let's go : out on a limb here to try and make things fit. Let's suppose that both the : UESC and the Pfhor have discovered Jjaro technology that makes it possible : for anyone to save their pattern for emergency backup. The saved pattern : can't prevent you from being killed or resurrect you from the dead, but it : can be used to restore yourself from your saved state if you are mortally : wounded - i.e. it's a medical device of last resort. We'll assume that it : needs a living body to work, even if barely, so that it cannot confer : immortality in and of itself. When it encounters a being with an implanted : Jjaro cybernetic junction, however, it does more - it not only saves their : pattern but establishes a link to that cybernetic junction. Should the : being be killed, the PB downloads their memories from the cybernetic : junction and beams them back in time to the moment the being last accessed : the PB. This is an unintended consequence from the standpoint of the : humans and Pfhor only - it is exactly what the Jjaro had intended.

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Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues NM	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:38 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Bob-B-Q	4/2/05 2:29 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/2/05 8:20 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/3/05 7:03 a.m.
They also have a forced locality	MrHen	4/3/05 8:52 a.m.
Does seem that way.	J-M	4/3/05 10:33 a.m.
Continuity	howekern	4/3/05 4:22 p.m.
Re: Continuity	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Re: Continuity	howekern	4/5/05 3:31 p.m.
Copied identities	MrHen	4/5/05 6:44 p.m.
Continuity again	Forrest of B.org	4/5/05 7:29 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Chlazza	4/3/05 10:55 a.m.
Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 1:01 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chlazza	4/3/05 2:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 3:19 p.m.
Copied people	MrHen	4/3/05 5:37 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/3/05 6:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 8:49 p.m.
At least twice	MrHen	4/4/05 5:34 a.m.
Google just shows those two. NM	MrHen	4/4/05 5:57 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/6/05 11:41 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:17 p.m.
modern AIs	Josh M.	4/13/05 7:53 p.m.
daisy daisy.... NM	duality	4/13/05 9:04 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Document	10/24/06 7:53 a.m.
copying neural networks?	MrHen	10/24/06 4:45 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	howekern	4/5/05 4:03 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	blake37	4/5/05 4:25 p.m.
Yow... and I agree.	MrHen	4/5/05 7:12 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 1:56 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Steve Levinson	4/6/05 7:44 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 5:50 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	MrHen	10/24/06 5:54 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Forrest of B.org	10/24/06 6:29 p.m.
Where is Leela's last message?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:01 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/25/06 9:50 a.m.
they spelled it wrong... NM	MrHen	10/25/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/24/06 8:23 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	ukimalefu	10/24/06 8:53 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	thermoplyae	10/24/06 10:49 p.m.
what?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:21 a.m.
Re: what?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 7:29 a.m.
misunderstandings... :P	MrHen	10/25/06 8:45 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	Document	10/25/06 9:52 a.m.
thanks! you rock...	MrHen	10/25/06 10:19 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:57 a.m.
oh, got it	MrHen	10/25/06 12:59 p.m.
Re: oh, got it	thermoplyae	10/25/06 1:26 p.m.
#alephone, eh?	MrHen	10/25/06 8:30 p.m.
Re: #alephone, eh?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:17 p.m.
Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	Forrest of B.org	10/25/06 4:15 p.m.
Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:14 p.m.
More numbers	MrHen	10/25/06 5:18 a.m.
AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	ForceMorph	4/8/05 6:16 p.m.
Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	Forrest of B.org	4/8/05 8:05 p.m.
Shades of Mamoru Oshii... NM	Bob-B-Q	4/9/05 5:56 a.m.
Re: "a planetary sized network"	Document	10/25/06 4:51 p.m.
My likely-nonsense theory	howekern	4/3/05 4:10 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:28 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Durandal has you! NM	ukimalefu	4/3/05 10:06 p.m.
Re: Durandal has you!	J-M	4/3/05 10:18 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	MrHen	4/4/05 5:47 a.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Steve Levinson	4/4/05 12:19 p.m.
Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:20 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:22 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	MrHen	4/4/05 5:55 a.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Document	11/1/06 9:31 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/6/05 5:55 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 8:34 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/7/05 4:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 5:10 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/8/05 1:41 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Steve Levinson	4/8/05 8:29 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/11/05 1:57 p.m.
Doesn't account for the world reset.	MrHen	4/13/05 5:40 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	Andrew Nagy (mb)	4/13/05 10:48 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	howekern	4/13/05 4:39 p.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	ukimalefu	4/14/05 12:52 p.m.
Yeah, but that's boring	MrHen	4/15/05 8:03 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/11/05 3:11 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/11/05 3:42 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Document	10/24/06 8:49 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI	AlexZander	10/30/06 2:35 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : Obviously if everyone could be resurrected from PB's, there would be no point : in killing your enemy. I have to give Bungie a lot of credit for working : the saved game mechanism into the plot, unlike Halo where it's clearly a : game-oriented device, but they missed the boat in explaining how this : works. If it were truly a matter of resurrecting yourself from your saved : pattern, you would resume the action where you left off, stepping over : your dead body and going on to fight from the point where you were killed : but not remembering how you got there. This isn't what happens. Let's go : out on a limb here to try and make things fit. Let's suppose that both the : UESC and the Pfhor have discovered Jjaro technology that makes it possible : for anyone to save their pattern for emergency backup. The saved pattern : can't prevent you from being killed or resurrect you from the dead, but it : can be used to restore yourself from your saved state if you are mortally : wounded - i.e. it's a medical device of last resort. We'll assume that it : needs a living body to work, even if barely, so that it cannot confer : immortality in and of itself. When it encounters a being with an implanted : Jjaro cybernetic junction, however, it does more - it not only saves their : pattern but establishes a link to that cybernetic junction. Should the : being be killed, the PB downloads their memories from the cybernetic : junction and beams them back in time to the moment the being last accessed : the PB. This is an unintended consequence from the standpoint of the : humans and Pfhor only - it is exactly what the Jjaro had intended.
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