|Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues|
|Posted By: J-M||Date: 4/2/05 7:37 p.m.|
Derives from _steersman_
I'm assuming of course that cybertonics wasn't a typo.
This is interesting because we're never told how AIs are made. The fact that they are so uncommon is also interesting. The fact that cybertonics means something completely different from cybertronics or any similar word associated with the creation of AIs is also interesting. Where does rampancy come from? The story-writers for the marathon series were coders, and were familiar with the difference between expert systems, logic arrays, and true AIs. They were also probably familiar with the potential technologies that could be behind an AI. So the issue returns to rampancy, and the curious etymology of Marathon's AI science.
Simply put, rampancy is not something you'd ever expect from a nueral network. You might expect disorders to arise, but no specific single one such as rampancy.
1) Rampancy is something that is common to AIs built by different technology bases. (Thoth is called meta-stable, meaning he's post-rampant)
So in the marathon universe, there's only one basic way to make a machine think. If not, the various means all have the same basic product.
7) The Jjrro or however it is spelled have no AIs. None.
There are three possible solutions.
15) If durandal can discard his seven times table, they must be programs of some sort, rather than neural nets. Either that or they're nueral nets hooked up to programs in some weird way.
Those are different at a very basic level.
Finally, and most importantly, other than the AIs there are no wholly inorganic sentients. Just fleshbags and cyborgs.
Now, ask any coder what happens when you rip a chunk of code out of a program. It will most likely crash the program or wreck it. Neural nets on the other hand degrade, the way that Leela does when she's under "attack."
The question is, what are these AIs? I don't have any answers off the top of my head, I just see plenty of problems with them being anything other than cyborgs. We know that computers are _no longer binary_ which doesn't leave a whole lot of options. There's no real reason to switch to something other than binary as long as you're doing digital calculations. Adding additional states doesn't add any dimensionality to their logic structure. Why? Because two binary on off switches can be used to render anything that one trinary could. It means that computers use a fundamentally different paradigm, one that allows ranged statements. Trinary switches don't give you those any better than binaries do, you need something else entirely. I'll leave the evidence in your hands, as I don't feel like I know enough to draw any real conclusions.
Oh and... if you have time travel, you never need to experience the closure of the Universe. You can move through fourspace literally indefinitely. Nice little plot hole, isn't it? Durandal was right, he could have escaped the closure using jrro technology.
|Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/2/05 7:37 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues *NM*||J-M||4/2/05 7:37 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/2/05 7:38 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Bob-B-Q||4/2/05 8:29 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||duality||4/3/05 2:20 a.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/3/05 12:03 p.m.|
|They also have a forced locality||MrHen||4/3/05 1:52 p.m.|
|Does seem that way.||J-M||4/3/05 3:33 p.m.|
|Continuity||howekern||4/3/05 9:22 p.m.|
|Re: Continuity||J-M||4/4/05 1:45 a.m.|
|Re: Continuity||howekern||4/5/05 8:31 p.m.|
|Copied identities||MrHen||4/5/05 11:44 p.m.|
|Continuity again||Forrest of B.org||4/6/05 12:29 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||Chlazza||4/3/05 3:55 p.m.|
|Interesting.||J-M||4/3/05 6:01 p.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||Chlazza||4/3/05 7:45 p.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||J-M||4/3/05 8:19 p.m.|
|Copied people||MrHen||4/3/05 10:37 p.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||thermoplyae||4/3/05 11:45 p.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||J-M||4/4/05 1:49 a.m.|
|At least twice||MrHen||4/4/05 10:34 a.m.|
|Google just shows those two. *NM*||MrHen||4/4/05 10:57 a.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||thermoplyae||4/6/05 4:41 p.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||Chaemera||4/4/05 1:17 a.m.|
|modern AIs||Josh M.||4/14/05 12:53 a.m.|
|daisy daisy.... *NM*||duality||4/14/05 2:04 a.m.|
|Re: Interesting.||Document||10/24/06 12:53 p.m.|
|copying neural networks?||MrHen||10/24/06 9:45 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||howekern||4/5/05 9:03 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||blake37||4/5/05 9:25 p.m.|
|Yow... and I agree.||MrHen||4/6/05 12:12 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||J-M||4/6/05 6:56 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||Steve Levinson||4/6/05 12:44 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||J-M||4/6/05 10:50 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||MrHen||10/24/06 10:54 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||Forrest of B.org||10/24/06 11:29 p.m.|
|Where is Leela's last message?||MrHen||10/25/06 10:01 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||Document||10/25/06 2:50 p.m.|
|they spelled it wrong... *NM*||MrHen||10/25/06 3:18 p.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||Document||10/25/06 1:23 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||ukimalefu||10/25/06 1:53 a.m.|
|Re: They also have a forced locality||thermoplyae||10/25/06 3:49 a.m.|
|what?||MrHen||10/25/06 10:21 a.m.|
|Re: what?||thermoplyae||10/25/06 12:29 p.m.|
|misunderstandings... :P||MrHen||10/25/06 1:45 p.m.|
|Re: misunderstandings... :P||Document||10/25/06 2:52 p.m.|
|thanks! you rock...||MrHen||10/25/06 3:19 p.m.|
|Re: misunderstandings... :P||thermoplyae||10/25/06 4:57 p.m.|
|oh, got it||MrHen||10/25/06 5:59 p.m.|
|Re: oh, got it||thermoplyae||10/25/06 6:26 p.m.|
|#alephone, eh?||MrHen||10/26/06 1:30 a.m.|
|Re: #alephone, eh?||thermoplyae||10/26/06 4:17 a.m.|
|Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth||Forrest of B.org||10/25/06 9:15 p.m.|
|Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth||thermoplyae||10/26/06 4:14 a.m.|
|More numbers||MrHen||10/25/06 10:18 a.m.|
|AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"||ForceMorph||4/8/05 11:16 p.m.|
|Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"||Forrest of B.org||4/9/05 1:05 a.m.|
|Shades of Mamoru Oshii... *NM*||Bob-B-Q||4/9/05 10:56 a.m.|
|Re: "a planetary sized network"||Document||10/25/06 9:51 p.m.|
|My likely-nonsense theory||howekern||4/3/05 9:10 p.m.|
|Re: My likely-nonsense theory||Chaemera||4/4/05 1:28 a.m.|
|Re: My likely-nonsense theory||J-M||4/4/05 1:45 a.m.|
|Durandal has you! *NM*||ukimalefu||4/4/05 3:06 a.m.|
|Re: Durandal has you!||J-M||4/4/05 3:18 a.m.|
|Re: My likely-nonsense theory||MrHen||4/4/05 10:47 a.m.|
|Re: My likely-nonsense theory||Steve Levinson||4/4/05 5:19 p.m.|
|Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology||Forrest of B.org||4/4/05 3:20 a.m.|
|Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology||Forrest of B.org||4/4/05 3:22 a.m.|
|Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology||MrHen||4/4/05 10:55 a.m.|
|Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology||Document||11/1/06 3:31 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/6/05 10:55 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Forrest of B.org||4/7/05 1:34 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/7/05 9:37 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Forrest of B.org||4/7/05 10:10 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/8/05 6:41 a.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Steve Levinson||4/8/05 1:29 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||duality||4/11/05 6:57 p.m.|
|Doesn't account for the world reset.||MrHen||4/13/05 10:40 a.m.|
|Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.||Andrew Nagy (mb)||4/13/05 3:48 p.m.|
|Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.||howekern||4/13/05 9:39 p.m.|
|Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.||ukimalefu||4/14/05 5:52 p.m.|
|Yeah, but that's boring||MrHen||4/15/05 1:03 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Forrest of B.org||4/11/05 8:11 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||J-M||4/11/05 8:42 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues||Document||10/24/06 1:49 p.m.|
|Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI||AlexZander||10/30/06 8:35 p.m.|
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